Aptitude installed by default on 13.10?

[Scott Kitterman]

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 06:36:45 PM Brett wrote:
> Seeing as this isn't dying anytime soon I'll jump in.
> 
> > Freeing them from what, learning? Granted, the average user isn't
> > interested in learning but they would be free to reject the opportunity
> > if they so chose. *That's* freedom.
> 
> There is nothing - *nothing* that is stopping anyone from installing
> whatever they want on Ubuntu. Canonical are doing the *smart*
> engineering decision and officially supports *one* tool that gets the
> job done. And the few people that disagree with the tool are more than
> welcome to hop on the servers graciously hosted by Canonical to download
> other tools.
> 
> I'm shocked that people get their panties in a bunch over this 'give me
> more choice!' issue since, as stated before, *one* default program that
> gets the job done has always been an Ubuntu policy.
> 
> > I had dumped Ubuntu and gone back to Debian, mostly because of Marvelous
> > Mark's autocratic attitude. Just recently decided to try Ubuntu again to
> > see what had changed. After reading the attitude that, at least, some of
> > the devs display here about determining for the user what's best for
> > him/her, I guess I'll settle in with Debian and just lurk on this list.
> 
> So what do you want in an OS? A 16-DVD installer of Ubuntu so that
> everyone will be just so happy that we have every single program ever
> installed? God forbid we deprive those poor souls of choice. Let's ask
> if they want auto-fsck enabled, or automount (because some users won't
> want their USB drives automounted, how uncivilized!).
> 
> I'm shocked that people can have this kind of though-process. People
> just want to use their goddamn computers - even something as simple as
> 'what search engine would you like to use?' distracts and complicates
> the computing experience - Just look at Windows. Watch users get so
> confused when Windows has eight million dialogues asking users what they
> want to do. There's a delicate balance between KDE's
> option's-galore-insanity and Gnome's brink-of-stupidity-simplifications.
> And Ubuntu's currently the only OS that is sane enough to *mostly* see
> this balance (sadly, they're still pulled back by Gnome's methodical
> destruction of their frameworks).
> 
> FYI, I'm not a Canonical member nor an Ubuntu member, so don't take my
> words as official.

One other point that I think is relevant is that this list is meant for 
user/developer interactions, but it's required for no one to be here.  ubuntu-
devel and ubuntu-devel-discuss got split into two lists a long time ago 
because it was hard to have a reasonable conversation on the old, combined 
ubuntu-devel.  In the past, this list has been a forum for users to flame 
developers over things they thought had been done wrong.

The result of a hostile environment for discussion is that developers 
unsubscribe.  There are a lot fewer subscribed now than there were when the 
list was first created.  If you want there to be a forum where developer and 
non-developers can regularly interact and discuss issue of interest to both 
groups, it's incumbent on people to make this list something people want to 
participate in.

Scott K