Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 65, Issue 3

Tue Apr 3 03:28:21 UTC 2012

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2012/4/2 <ubuntu-devel-discuss-request at lists.ubuntu.com>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed? (Phillip Susi)
>   2. Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed? (Dale Amon)
>   3. Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed? (Vernon Cole)
>   4. Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed? (Dale Amon)
>   5. Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
>      (Scott Kitterman)
>   6. Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
>      (Jordon Bedwell)
>   7. Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed? (Phillip Susi)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 15:17:46 -0400
> From: Phillip Susi <psusi at ubuntu.com>
> To: Dale Amon <amon at vnl.com>
> Cc: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
> Message-ID: <4F79FB5A.6030808 at ubuntu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 4/1/2012 7:52 AM, Dale Amon wrote:
> > Just as an example, I have about 30 terminals
> > on my desktop. Clicking on one of them puts
> > me directly into a server somewhere. I can
> > have a customer on the phone, click once and
> > be dealing with their problem almost instantly.
>
> And you think switching to a blank desktop, moving your hand to the
> mouse, scanning 30 icons for the one you want, and clicking on it, is
> faster than just typing "ssh someserver" into a terminal?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 20:56:44 +0100
> From: Dale Amon <amon at vnl.com>
> To: Phillip Susi <psusi at ubuntu.com>
> Cc: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
> Message-ID: <20120402195643.GM10584 at vnl.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 03:17:46PM -0400, Phillip Susi wrote:
> > On 4/1/2012 7:52 AM, Dale Amon wrote:
> > >Just as an example, I have about 30 terminals
> > >on my desktop. Clicking on one of them puts
> > >me directly into a server somewhere. I can
> > >have a customer on the phone, click once and
> > >be dealing with their problem almost instantly.
> >
> > And you think switching to a blank desktop, moving your hand to the
> > mouse, scanning 30 icons for the one you want, and clicking on it,
> > is faster than just typing "ssh someserver" into a terminal?
>
> Yes. I could do it in my sleep, in the semi dark.
>
> And I have.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 13:57:05 -0600
> From: Vernon Cole <vernondcole at gmail.com>
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
> Message-ID:
>        <CAH-ZgAcmg99CbD3k-2c5-reejmi8K+j40=Pfm7s4DHPKXr_sXA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dale makes the case that I have wanted to present, but he says it better
> than I.  Unity is still missing key components that some of us have really
> come to depend on. Until those gaps are filled in, we cannot be fully
> productive using Unity, and therefore don't think it's a good idea to
> switch to it.
>
>  I have taken the Unity challenge, and the computer on which I am typing
> this -- my daily use laptop -- is running Unity.  After several months of
> experience, I feel that I am qualified to give a better evaluation than my
> initial response, which, indeed was: "Unity sucks."  No, it doesn't. It's
> actually a pretty nice desktop which has a few serious warts.  It works
> really well for a user with a limited set of applications -- the number
> which will fit on the pop-out bar (whatever it is being called this week)
> on the left side of the screen. Your average secretary or software engineer
> needs no more than that, and within those limitations, Unity is pretty,
> quick, and easy to use.
>
>  But Dale is right, we need to talk about the warts.
>
> Wart 1 -- no menu.
>   Removing the pull-down menu from the top bar did save a lot of space,
> and makes the screen look cleaner. It also eliminates a neat, hierarchical
> organization which lets me locate software that I use only occasionally.
> For example,  I use Windows applications regularly, but rarely need to
> alter my Wine environment. When I do want to make a change it's easy (on my
> old boxes) -- just go down to the Wine submenu, and pick one of the four or
> five items there, I don't remember what they are called. But without an
> hierarchical organization, how do I find them?  Scroll through screens full
> of large icons sorted in alphabetical order searching for something which
> might look familiar???!!!  Insanity!   Same for office applications,
> multimedia applications, infrequently used accessories...
>  I also use Xubuntu 11.10 on a daily basis.  It has a nice little menu
> system accessed from a little icon on the upper left edge of the screen --
> even smaller then the Blue Ball which appears on the lower left corner of
> my Windows 7 box -- which also calls up an hierarchical menu.
>  Solution: copy the Xubuntu menu system.  It should also be called up when
> I hit the "Windows" key on my keyboard.
>
> Wart 2 -- no way to create a launcher.
>  I think that it's really quite comical that when I click on the <Bazaar
> Explorer> icon on my desktop that the Windows version of Bazaar Explorer
> starts up.  The shortcut (i.e.: launcher) was placed there by the Wine
> program loader when I installed bzr.exe.   [Yes, I did that on purpose --
> the Windows version does a better job of managing bazaar branches on NTFS
> volumes. On this dual-boot system, most of my storage is NTFS.]
>  I am used to having about 1/4 of the space on my desktop cluttered with
> launchers for things which I my not use daily, but when I want them, I want
> them NOW, or want them to have root access.  For example, on my 11.04 box I
> have launchers for Thunar and Wireshark under gksu -- so that I can
> conveniently move or modify system files, and monitor my ethernet
> interfaces. The nicest thing about using Ubuntu for a router is the ability
> to use Wireshark to see what application programs on the downstream network
> are doing. For that, you need a gui screen with root access.  Easy if you
> have custom launchers -- very clumsy, otherwise.
>  Solution A:  (as on Xubuntu) left click on an empty desktop, select
> "Create Launcher".
>  Solution B: left click on an existing program icon, select "Create
> Launcher".
>
> Wart 3 -- the active window is visually detached from its control menu.
>  It took me over a month to discover that most of the things I was
> _really_ frustrated that Unity would not let me do, were actually easy.
> The control pull-down menu items that I needed were right there all along
> -- except that they had moved to the area formerly used for the system
> control menu at the upper left corner of the screen. Even after these many
> months I still have to remind myself to look 'way up there" to find them.
> Also, it is hard to tell where the active window's controls end and the
> system's controls begin.
>  Solution A:  (perhaps) make the application's control menu's portion of
> the top bar the same colour as the frame on the active application window.
> The simultaneous colour change would create a visual and mental connection
> between the two screen areas.
>  Solution B: Activate the pull-down menu when I hit the "menu" key on my
> keyboard.
>
> Wart 4 -- No one-click desktop switching.
>  The present method: 1) Move the cursor to the left edge of the screen 2)
> wait a couple of seconds 3) move the cursor to the desktop switcher 4)
> click on it 5) move the cursor to the desired desktop 6) click twice -- is
> NOT one click.  Imagine that I have my bank statement on a web browser on
> one desktop, and my financial application on the other.  To do a
> reconciliation I must bounce back-and-forth between the two many times.
> Will the six-step process work for me?
>  Solution A: have a good one click desktop changer widget.
>  Solution B: make a training presentation where a user is taught what
> <ctrl-alt-right arrow> does.
>
> Wart 5 -- lack of a comprehensive set of widgets.
>  Dale mentioned his multi-time-zone clock.  The deal breaker for me is the
> system monitor widgets.  My home office router/server has the CPU load and
> network activity widgets running constantly.  When things slow down, a
> single glance can tell me what is, or is not, wrong.  Click on the widget,
> and the system monitor application is right there.  I also depend on the
> X-eyes widget to help me find a lost mouse cursor at times when my age
> affects my vision.
>  Solution: Get somebody busy converting widgets.  Also consider desktop
> widgets (like my smart phone has.)
>
> So there it is.  All we want is all the new stuff -- along with everything
> we had before.  Is that too much to ask?
> --
> Vernon
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 20:58:20 +0100
> From: Dale Amon <amon at vnl.com>
> To: Phillip Susi <psusi at ubuntu.com>
> Cc: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
> Message-ID: <20120402195820.GN10584 at vnl.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Oh and did I mention that some are only accessible
> by ip or have unique ssh ports for security? I'm
> not very good at remembering those at 3am.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:27:57 -0400
> From: Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
> Message-ID: <1580516.sopBZzS5Fe at scott-latitude-e6320>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Monday, April 02, 2012 08:58:20 PM Dale Amon wrote:
> > Oh and did I mention that some are only accessible
> > by ip or have unique ssh ports for security? I'm
> > not very good at remembering those at 3am.
>
> That's what ~/.ssh/config is for.
>
> Scott K
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 15:36:22 -0500
> From: Jordon Bedwell <jordon at envygeeks.com>
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
> Message-ID:
>        <CAN5oe=0axDR2A3bYv6Jaiz5OH5QhJTUZ6-gWV08iu_Wr8HyghQ at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com>
> wrote:
> > On Monday, April 02, 2012 08:58:20 PM Dale Amon wrote:
> >> Oh and did I mention that some are only accessible
> >> by ip or have unique ssh ports for security? I'm
> >> not very good at remembering those at 3am.
> >
> > That's what ~/.ssh/config is for.
>
> Or you can also use /etc/hosts and set IP to a hostname locally.
> There is very little security a 'unique' port provides because without
> a firewall that has whitelists over blacklist or are doing
> port-knocking they'll eventually discover the port, sooner then later
> IMO.  That is if it's a real adversary, I guess for a dumb adversary
> it would hold them off but I would much rather assume the adversary is
> smart rather than compromise by assuming they are dumb.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 17:03:23 -0400
> From: Phillip Susi <psusi at ubuntu.com>
> To: Dale Amon <amon at vnl.com>
> Cc: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
> Message-ID: <4F7A141B.3010108 at ubuntu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 4/2/2012 3:58 PM, Dale Amon wrote:
> > Oh and did I mention that some are only accessible
> > by ip or have unique ssh ports for security? I'm
> > not very good at remembering those at 3am.
>
> You can set you your ssh config to have those so you don't have to
> remember them, and then typing "ssh somehost" is faster and easier
> especially at 3am than clicking the correct icon.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 65, Issue 3
> ***************************************************
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