Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 42, Issue 32

Patrick H. patrick.harzheim at gmail.com
Mon May 24 04:57:04 BST 2010


Well, chromium is a binary, isn't it.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Anthony G Weitekamp
<ag.w at silver-tungsten.com> wrote:
> You are surprised?  Google makes its money by selling information.  It
> does not care how the information is obtained, just that it is.  Stop
> whining and accept the fact that Google, like any other commercial
> search engine is spyware.  Deal with or avoid it.  Read the fine print
> in your EULA.
>
> Tony Weitekamp
>
> On 5/18/2010 6:00 PM, ubuntu-devel-discuss-request at lists.ubuntu.com wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>     1. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
>>     2. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
>>     3. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (John Moser)
>>     4. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Joe Terranova)
>>     5. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
>>     6. Re: Remove OO Draw from the default install (Bruno Girin)
>>     7. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>>        (Jonathon Fernyhough)
>>     8. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:12:33 -0400
>> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
>> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>> To: debian-devel at lists.debian.org,
>>       ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Message-ID:
>>       <AANLkTimdCjjkCUvaUnHlnEcJXG4eiRAQsz361Xso9pIh at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> "Chrome Incognito Tracks Visited Sites"
>> http://www.lewiz.org/2010/05/chrome-incognito-tracks-visited-sites.html
>>
>> This seems to be becoming a theme. As Chromium has much of the same
>> privacy issues as Chrome (SRWare Iron is made from Chromium and the
>> code is striped from Chromium), this "feature" is surely in Chromium
>> as well.
>>
>> I find this completely unacceptable.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:22:54 -0400
>> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
>> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>> To: debian-devel at lists.debian.org,
>>       ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Message-ID:
>>       <AANLkTilQlVsiI_NB8K_Q1gquLQe7x0GXB71-I9H42ijF at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Chrome Incognito Tracks Visited Sites"
>>> http://www.lewiz.org/2010/05/chrome-incognito-tracks-visited-sites.html
>>>
>>> This seems to be becoming a theme. As Chromium has much of the same
>>> privacy issues as Chrome (SRWare Iron is made from Chromium and the
>>> code is striped from Chromium), this "feature" is surely in Chromium
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> I find this completely unacceptable.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>> The above seems to be an oversight on Google's part. But the fact that
>> it hasn't been fixed, despite being known for over a month, is a good
>> indicator that Google isn't too concerned about privacy...
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:30:40 -0400
>> From: John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>> To: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
>> Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com,
>>       debian-devel at lists.debian.org
>> Message-ID:
>>       <AANLkTilc_LxXTq5wmbGehGcdJJ4GsNJhC5LGdA_4YkO_ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Shut up.  You're whining like a raving politicized lune and nobody is
>> listening to your monologue.
>>
>> Apply some critical thinking skills.  It's a bug in a special mode of a
>> browser, a mode that doesn't store history/cookies.  It's not (known to be)
>> sharing anything with the 'net, so it's innocuous as known.  Nobody can
>> agree on if it even works; or if it does, if it works between sessions.
>>
>> I suppose when a cloud goes in front of the sun you panic and look up to
>> check if the sun is dying.
>>
>> On May 18, 2010 1:24 PM, "Ryan Oram"<ryan at infinityos.net>  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>  wrote:>
>> "Chrome Incognito Tracks V...
>> The above seems to be an oversight on Google's part. But the fact that
>> it hasn't been fixed, despite being known for over a month, is a good
>> indicator that Google isn't too concerned about privacy...
>>
>> Thanks, Ryan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com Modify se...
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:33:41 -0400
>> From: Joe Terranova<joeterranova at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>> To: John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>,
>>       ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com,  debian-devel at lists.debian.org
>> Message-ID:
>>       <AANLkTil3jmoJ07NkXWsstzJ8ouweyZLcE-OXI1I50t7g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Don't hold back, John. Tell us how you really feel.
>>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:30 PM, John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Shut up.? You're whining like a raving politicized lune and nobody is
>>> listening to your monologue.
>>>
>>> Apply some critical thinking skills.? It's a bug in a special mode of a
>>> browser, a mode that doesn't store history/cookies.? It's not (known to be)
>>> sharing anything with the 'net, so it's innocuous as known.? Nobody can
>>> agree on if it even works; or if it does, if it works between sessions.
>>>
>>> I suppose when a cloud goes in front of the sun you panic and look up to
>>> check if the sun is dying.
>>>
>>> On May 18, 2010 1:24 PM, "Ryan Oram"<ryan at infinityos.net>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>  wrote:>
>>> "Chrome Incognito Tracks V...
>>>
>>> The above seems to be an oversight on Google's part. But the fact that
>>> it hasn't been fixed, despite being known for over a month, is a good
>>> indicator that Google isn't too concerned about privacy...
>>>
>>> Thanks, Ryan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
>>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com Modify se...
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
>>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:36:19 -0400
>> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
>> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>> To: John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>,
>>       ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Message-ID:
>>       <AANLkTilDFZtYiosBUtIWWEt3jpSPEdyxXzZ0a7J3spwv at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:30 PM, John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Shut up.? You're whining like a raving politicized lune and nobody is
>>> listening to your monologue.
>>>
>>> Apply some critical thinking skills.? It's a bug in a special mode of a
>>> browser, a mode that doesn't store history/cookies.? It's not (known to be)
>>> sharing anything with the 'net, so it's innocuous as known.? Nobody can
>>> agree on if it even works; or if it does, if it works between sessions.
>>>
>>> I suppose when a cloud goes in front of the sun you panic and look up to
>>> check if the sun is dying.
>>>
>> Towards the end, everyone was picking up the bug.
>>
>> Yes, it's a little detail. But it's one that can be be easily picked
>> up by any trojan or tracking software. It completely defeats the
>> purpose of the Incognito mode, which is to prevent any of this
>> information to be stored.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:52:34 +0100
>> From: Bruno Girin<brunogirin at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Remove OO Draw from the default install
>> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Message-ID:<1274208754.1552.80.camel at nuuk>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 15:18 +0200, Aur?lien Naldi wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shane Fagan
>>> <shanepatrickfagan at ubuntu.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey all,
>>>>
>>>> I forgot to mention this at the session for default app selection but
>>>> can we remove Open Office Draw from the default ubuntu install? The
>>>> reasons are quite obvious it just isnt any good and I dont think any of
>>>> the regular users actually use it.
>>>>
>>> This probably deserves some discussion. I'm not a huge fan or
>>> openoffice in general for various reasons but it seems to be the best
>>> free software available for a wide audience (LaTeX, R and other great
>>> tools are way too specialised and techie).
>>> Back to OOo draw: it seems to me that it is just impress without the
>>> effect parts and as such I don't think it uses much space. For the
>>> record I do use it (mostly to do simple drawings, export them as pdf
>>> and insert them into latex document, so I guess I'm not the main
>>> target here...).
>>>
>> I agree with this and I would like to add a few extra points.
>>
>> OOo Draw is not the best standalone vector drawing tool around, that's
>> true. On the other hand, it's one of the most accessible for casual
>> users and it is also the best tool when you use it as part of the OOo
>> suite, in collaboration with OOo Writer, Impress or Calc. For instance,
>> I use OOo Draw all the time to produce diagrams that I subsequently
>> include into OOo Writer documents (that generally end up as Word or PDF
>> docs). OOo Draw provides the simplest workflow for that type of usage,
>> which I encounter all the time in business environments.
>>
>> So when it comes to Shane's statement "it just isnt any good", I'd say
>> it depends from what point of view. If you are a graphic artist, indeed
>> you need a more elaborate tool and you probably expect to have to
>> download such a specialist tool. If you are a business or home user who
>> just wants to include the occasional drawing into a word processing
>> document, OOo Draw is exactly what you need. Also note that OOo Draw has
>> its quirks but once you understand how things work (such as the colour
>> palette management), it is actually quite good. I first used it under
>> duress because it was the only tool that supported the workflow I needed
>> and I had low expectations but I have been pleasantly surprised along
>> the way.
>>
>> One last that point I want to make it that removing OOo Draw from the
>> default install would mean that you would no longer have a vector
>> drawing tool in the default install (apart from OOo Impress but that
>> would be misusing it to do a job it's not really designed to do, in the
>> same way that thousands of Windows users routinely misuse Powerpoint to
>> include drawings in their documents because they don't have any real
>> vector drawing package at their disposal).
>>
>> In conclusion, I think OOo Draw fits well in the Ubuntu application
>> ecosystem and deserves to be installed by default because it provides
>> casual users with an adequate drawing package that works out of the box,
>> is reasonably intuitive to use and integrates well with the rest of the
>> office suite.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I don't mind installing extra software so removing it would be OK for
>>> me, but only if it does allow a huge space gain, which I doubt (the
>>> size of the .deb isn't a good hint here as impress is tiny and depends
>>> on draw).
>>>
>> I agree to that too. And I think that the benefits of removing it
>> without crippling Impress are too small compared to the downsides of
>> doing so (namely: working out how to de-couple it from Impress and not
>> break anything as well as the reasons detailed above).
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 21:55:38 +0100
>> From: Jonathon Fernyhough<j.fernyhough at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>> To: Ubuntu Dev-Discuss<ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>       <AANLkTimTF3g3R6bBowf4HsGG4zDppUQHTyQkfb_uI54y at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> On 18 May 2010 01:15, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>  wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php
>>>
>>> This should become a full open source project with a community behind
>>> it. With Mozilla disregarding H.264, the community needs a full
>>> browser capable of H.264 video playback without the privacy issues of
>>> Chrome.
>>>
>>>
>> Unless things have changed, Chromium does not include the tracking
>> features of the branded Chrome. Hence, Chromium is fine. Plus it has
>> the benefit of already being a full open source project.
>>
>>
>>> We need to "Iceweasel" Chromium.
>>>
>>>
>> Why? Are there distribution restrictions on Chromium? In any event,
>> Ubuntu distributes Firefox. Maybe talk to Debian?
>>
>>
>>> I'm willing to put the infinityOS team behind this,
>>>
>> So you and one other?
>>
>>
>>> but I would like
>>> the help and support of the Ubuntu community.
>>>
>>>
>> To build and package Chromium? That's already being done for Maverick,
>> and there are PPA channels for Release, Beta and Daily builds.
>>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:00:52 -0400
>> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
>> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
>> To: Jonathon Fernyhough<j.fernyhough at gmail.com>,
>>       ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Message-ID:
>>       <AANLkTikwDHU08MmOz4F50Szx1BhPqt26KaOTxH5rlL3U at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:33 AM, Jonathon Fernyhough
>> <j.fernyhough at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Unless things have changed, Chromium does not include the tracking
>>> features of the branded Chrome. Hence, Chromium is fine. Plus it has
>>> the benefit of already being a full open source project.
>>>
>> It doesn't include everything, but it does include a lot of it. This
>> is outlined on the SRWare website. SRWare went through and removed all
>> of the offending code, so perhaps it would be best if Ubuntu/Debian
>> went and talked to them about officially packaging SRWare Iron for
>> inclusion into the Ubuntu and Debian distributions. SRWare Iron has
>> released source code as well, although it appears to be out of date.
>>
>>
>>> Why? Are there distribution restrictions on Chromium? In any event,
>>> Ubuntu distributes Firefox. Maybe talk to Debian?
>>>
>> I've posted this on the debian-devel mailing list as well. This was
>> posted out of a concern that Canoncial is thinking about switching
>> over to Chromium in later releases as Lubuntu has done already. I have
>> seen articles of this possibility as well. I don't feel making
>> Chromium the default browser is appropriate until the privacy issues
>> are addressed. I also feel that taking care these issues before a
>> switch to Chromium is even seriously considered is beneficial to
>> everyone.
>>
>>
>>>> I'm willing to put the infinityOS team behind this,
>>>>
>>> So you and one other?
>>>
>> I have a team of about 5 people at the moment. My team is certainly
>> small, which would prevent us from taking a more central role in such
>> a project, but we would be more than willing to help package it and
>> test it.
>>
>>
>>>> but I would like
>>>> the help and support of the Ubuntu community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> To build and package Chromium? That's already being done for Maverick,
>>> and there are PPA channels for Release, Beta and Daily builds.
>>>
>> As infinityOS is based on the Ubuntu codebase and will stay that way,
>> whatever benefits Ubuntu will benefit infinityOS as well. As I have
>> said in prior posts, we intend to give back whatever we take. We have
>> an obligation to contribute to the Ubuntu community, as infinityOS
>> would not be possible without its great amount of work.
>>
>> We would be more than willing to assist in a project to alleviate the
>> privacy concerns of Chromium.
>>
>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>> Thank you,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>
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