Ubuntu-devel-discuss Digest, Vol 42, Issue 32
Anthony G Weitekamp
ag.w at silver-tungsten.com
Wed May 19 00:30:57 UTC 2010
You are surprised? Google makes its money by selling information. It
does not care how the information is obtained, just that it is. Stop
whining and accept the fact that Google, like any other commercial
search engine is spyware. Deal with or avoid it. Read the fine print
in your EULA.
Tony Weitekamp
On 5/18/2010 6:00 PM, ubuntu-devel-discuss-request at lists.ubuntu.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
> 2. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
> 3. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (John Moser)
> 4. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Joe Terranova)
> 5. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
> 6. Re: Remove OO Draw from the default install (Bruno Girin)
> 7. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> (Jonathon Fernyhough)
> 8. Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining (Ryan Oram)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:12:33 -0400
> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> To: debian-devel at lists.debian.org,
> ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimdCjjkCUvaUnHlnEcJXG4eiRAQsz361Xso9pIh at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> "Chrome Incognito Tracks Visited Sites"
> http://www.lewiz.org/2010/05/chrome-incognito-tracks-visited-sites.html
>
> This seems to be becoming a theme. As Chromium has much of the same
> privacy issues as Chrome (SRWare Iron is made from Chromium and the
> code is striped from Chromium), this "feature" is surely in Chromium
> as well.
>
> I find this completely unacceptable.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:22:54 -0400
> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> To: debian-devel at lists.debian.org,
> ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTilQlVsiI_NB8K_Q1gquLQe7x0GXB71-I9H42ijF at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net> wrote:
>
>> "Chrome Incognito Tracks Visited Sites"
>> http://www.lewiz.org/2010/05/chrome-incognito-tracks-visited-sites.html
>>
>> This seems to be becoming a theme. As Chromium has much of the same
>> privacy issues as Chrome (SRWare Iron is made from Chromium and the
>> code is striped from Chromium), this "feature" is surely in Chromium
>> as well.
>>
>> I find this completely unacceptable.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
> The above seems to be an oversight on Google's part. But the fact that
> it hasn't been fixed, despite being known for over a month, is a good
> indicator that Google isn't too concerned about privacy...
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:30:40 -0400
> From: John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> To: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
> Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com,
> debian-devel at lists.debian.org
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTilc_LxXTq5wmbGehGcdJJ4GsNJhC5LGdA_4YkO_ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Shut up. You're whining like a raving politicized lune and nobody is
> listening to your monologue.
>
> Apply some critical thinking skills. It's a bug in a special mode of a
> browser, a mode that doesn't store history/cookies. It's not (known to be)
> sharing anything with the 'net, so it's innocuous as known. Nobody can
> agree on if it even works; or if it does, if it works between sessions.
>
> I suppose when a cloud goes in front of the sun you panic and look up to
> check if the sun is dying.
>
> On May 18, 2010 1:24 PM, "Ryan Oram"<ryan at infinityos.net> wrote:
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net> wrote:>
> "Chrome Incognito Tracks V...
> The above seems to be an oversight on Google's part. But the fact that
> it hasn't been fixed, despite being known for over a month, is a good
> indicator that Google isn't too concerned about privacy...
>
> Thanks, Ryan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com Modify se...
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:33:41 -0400
> From: Joe Terranova<joeterranova at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> To: John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>
> Cc: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>,
> ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com, debian-devel at lists.debian.org
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTil3jmoJ07NkXWsstzJ8ouweyZLcE-OXI1I50t7g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Don't hold back, John. Tell us how you really feel.
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:30 PM, John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Shut up.? You're whining like a raving politicized lune and nobody is
>> listening to your monologue.
>>
>> Apply some critical thinking skills.? It's a bug in a special mode of a
>> browser, a mode that doesn't store history/cookies.? It's not (known to be)
>> sharing anything with the 'net, so it's innocuous as known.? Nobody can
>> agree on if it even works; or if it does, if it works between sessions.
>>
>> I suppose when a cloud goes in front of the sun you panic and look up to
>> check if the sun is dying.
>>
>> On May 18, 2010 1:24 PM, "Ryan Oram"<ryan at infinityos.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net> wrote:>
>> "Chrome Incognito Tracks V...
>>
>> The above seems to be an oversight on Google's part. But the fact that
>> it hasn't been fixed, despite being known for over a month, is a good
>> indicator that Google isn't too concerned about privacy...
>>
>> Thanks, Ryan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com Modify se...
>>
>> --
>> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
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>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
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>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:36:19 -0400
> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> To: John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com>,
> ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTilDFZtYiosBUtIWWEt3jpSPEdyxXzZ0a7J3spwv at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:30 PM, John Moser<john.r.moser at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Shut up.? You're whining like a raving politicized lune and nobody is
>> listening to your monologue.
>>
>> Apply some critical thinking skills.? It's a bug in a special mode of a
>> browser, a mode that doesn't store history/cookies.? It's not (known to be)
>> sharing anything with the 'net, so it's innocuous as known.? Nobody can
>> agree on if it even works; or if it does, if it works between sessions.
>>
>> I suppose when a cloud goes in front of the sun you panic and look up to
>> check if the sun is dying.
>>
> Towards the end, everyone was picking up the bug.
>
> Yes, it's a little detail. But it's one that can be be easily picked
> up by any trojan or tracking software. It completely defeats the
> purpose of the Incognito mode, which is to prevent any of this
> information to be stored.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:52:34 +0100
> From: Bruno Girin<brunogirin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Remove OO Draw from the default install
> To: ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:<1274208754.1552.80.camel at nuuk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 15:18 +0200, Aur?lien Naldi wrote:
>
>> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shane Fagan
>> <shanepatrickfagan at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I forgot to mention this at the session for default app selection but
>>> can we remove Open Office Draw from the default ubuntu install? The
>>> reasons are quite obvious it just isnt any good and I dont think any of
>>> the regular users actually use it.
>>>
>> This probably deserves some discussion. I'm not a huge fan or
>> openoffice in general for various reasons but it seems to be the best
>> free software available for a wide audience (LaTeX, R and other great
>> tools are way too specialised and techie).
>> Back to OOo draw: it seems to me that it is just impress without the
>> effect parts and as such I don't think it uses much space. For the
>> record I do use it (mostly to do simple drawings, export them as pdf
>> and insert them into latex document, so I guess I'm not the main
>> target here...).
>>
> I agree with this and I would like to add a few extra points.
>
> OOo Draw is not the best standalone vector drawing tool around, that's
> true. On the other hand, it's one of the most accessible for casual
> users and it is also the best tool when you use it as part of the OOo
> suite, in collaboration with OOo Writer, Impress or Calc. For instance,
> I use OOo Draw all the time to produce diagrams that I subsequently
> include into OOo Writer documents (that generally end up as Word or PDF
> docs). OOo Draw provides the simplest workflow for that type of usage,
> which I encounter all the time in business environments.
>
> So when it comes to Shane's statement "it just isnt any good", I'd say
> it depends from what point of view. If you are a graphic artist, indeed
> you need a more elaborate tool and you probably expect to have to
> download such a specialist tool. If you are a business or home user who
> just wants to include the occasional drawing into a word processing
> document, OOo Draw is exactly what you need. Also note that OOo Draw has
> its quirks but once you understand how things work (such as the colour
> palette management), it is actually quite good. I first used it under
> duress because it was the only tool that supported the workflow I needed
> and I had low expectations but I have been pleasantly surprised along
> the way.
>
> One last that point I want to make it that removing OOo Draw from the
> default install would mean that you would no longer have a vector
> drawing tool in the default install (apart from OOo Impress but that
> would be misusing it to do a job it's not really designed to do, in the
> same way that thousands of Windows users routinely misuse Powerpoint to
> include drawings in their documents because they don't have any real
> vector drawing package at their disposal).
>
> In conclusion, I think OOo Draw fits well in the Ubuntu application
> ecosystem and deserves to be installed by default because it provides
> casual users with an adequate drawing package that works out of the box,
> is reasonably intuitive to use and integrates well with the rest of the
> office suite.
>
>
>
>> I don't mind installing extra software so removing it would be OK for
>> me, but only if it does allow a huge space gain, which I doubt (the
>> size of the .deb isn't a good hint here as impress is tiny and depends
>> on draw).
>>
> I agree to that too. And I think that the benefits of removing it
> without crippling Impress are too small compared to the downsides of
> doing so (namely: working out how to de-couple it from Impress and not
> break anything as well as the reasons detailed above).
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 21:55:38 +0100
> From: Jonathon Fernyhough<j.fernyhough at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> To: Ubuntu Dev-Discuss<ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimTF3g3R6bBowf4HsGG4zDppUQHTyQkfb_uI54y at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 18 May 2010 01:15, Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net> wrote:
>
>> http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron_chrome_vs_iron.php
>>
>> This should become a full open source project with a community behind
>> it. With Mozilla disregarding H.264, the community needs a full
>> browser capable of H.264 video playback without the privacy issues of
>> Chrome.
>>
>>
> Unless things have changed, Chromium does not include the tracking
> features of the branded Chrome. Hence, Chromium is fine. Plus it has
> the benefit of already being a full open source project.
>
>
>> We need to "Iceweasel" Chromium.
>>
>>
> Why? Are there distribution restrictions on Chromium? In any event,
> Ubuntu distributes Firefox. Maybe talk to Debian?
>
>
>> I'm willing to put the infinityOS team behind this,
>>
> So you and one other?
>
>
>> but I would like
>> the help and support of the Ubuntu community.
>>
>>
> To build and package Chromium? That's already being done for Maverick,
> and there are PPA channels for Release, Beta and Daily builds.
>
>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan
>>
>>
> Good luck.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:00:52 -0400
> From: Ryan Oram<ryan at infinityos.net>
> Subject: Re: SRWare Iron: Chromium without the data-mining
> To: Jonathon Fernyhough<j.fernyhough at gmail.com>,
> ubuntu-devel-discuss at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikwDHU08MmOz4F50Szx1BhPqt26KaOTxH5rlL3U at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:33 AM, Jonathon Fernyhough
> <j.fernyhough at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Unless things have changed, Chromium does not include the tracking
>> features of the branded Chrome. Hence, Chromium is fine. Plus it has
>> the benefit of already being a full open source project.
>>
> It doesn't include everything, but it does include a lot of it. This
> is outlined on the SRWare website. SRWare went through and removed all
> of the offending code, so perhaps it would be best if Ubuntu/Debian
> went and talked to them about officially packaging SRWare Iron for
> inclusion into the Ubuntu and Debian distributions. SRWare Iron has
> released source code as well, although it appears to be out of date.
>
>
>> Why? Are there distribution restrictions on Chromium? In any event,
>> Ubuntu distributes Firefox. Maybe talk to Debian?
>>
> I've posted this on the debian-devel mailing list as well. This was
> posted out of a concern that Canoncial is thinking about switching
> over to Chromium in later releases as Lubuntu has done already. I have
> seen articles of this possibility as well. I don't feel making
> Chromium the default browser is appropriate until the privacy issues
> are addressed. I also feel that taking care these issues before a
> switch to Chromium is even seriously considered is beneficial to
> everyone.
>
>
>>> I'm willing to put the infinityOS team behind this,
>>>
>> So you and one other?
>>
> I have a team of about 5 people at the moment. My team is certainly
> small, which would prevent us from taking a more central role in such
> a project, but we would be more than willing to help package it and
> test it.
>
>
>>> but I would like
>>> the help and support of the Ubuntu community.
>>>
>>>
>> To build and package Chromium? That's already being done for Maverick,
>> and there are PPA channels for Release, Beta and Daily builds.
>>
> As infinityOS is based on the Ubuntu codebase and will stay that way,
> whatever benefits Ubuntu will benefit infinityOS as well. As I have
> said in prior posts, we intend to give back whatever we take. We have
> an obligation to contribute to the Ubuntu community, as infinityOS
> would not be possible without its great amount of work.
>
> We would be more than willing to assist in a project to alleviate the
> privacy concerns of Chromium.
>
>
>> Good luck.
>>
>>
> Thank you,
> Ryan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
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