Ubuntu Domain Server

Christopher Chan christopher.chan at bradbury.edu.hk
Fri Nov 20 07:00:54 UTC 2009

Luke L wrote:
> I read some comments on this thread, and I feel I must chime in,
> because I get furious at the anti-GUI people.

Where? Where? I don't remember anybody being explicitly anti-GUI.
> It's been said before, and I will say it again. Stupid people will do
> stupid things, one way or another. I do know that often times, with
> repeatable tasks and with things that can be done step-by-step, a GUI
> can be useful in keeping the learning curve low. Can a low learning
> curve make some people think they know what they're doing, when they
> may not? Yes. Still, you are artificially setting the bar for time and
> energy spent HIGHER for those of us who could and/or do know the
> consequences of our actions.

Ah yes, you are one of those who advocate letting people who know all 
about putting their foot on the accelerator and nothing about traffic 
laws loose on streets with automatics because they are easier to drive 
than manuals.

> Analogies can be made all day. Should we make people code every
> website from scratch, in pure HTML/CSS/SQL? No, because even though I
> have done that in the past and could do it again, MVC frameworks take
> a lot of the cruft out of building sites. How about Joomla? Should we
> say they shouldn't exist, because it makes it easy for end-users to
> make simple club websites? No, that's absurd.

So there is webmin, ..., ..., ..., oh you don't like them because they 
don't also steer for you or something?

> So should we purposely shun the development of time-saving GUIs for
> some applications (e.g. Virtual Machine Manager) because some people
> will find it easier to use than learning 50 different command switches
> and having to visualize my work myself? NO.

Did anybody say that? No? Thanks for reinforcing a point anyway for 
those tasks that actually become more convenient with a gui in certain 

> Intuitive GUIs that simplify tasks and help users SEE and UNDERSTAND
> system statistics and procedures are USEFUL and should NOT be thrown
> away because it might allow unskilled users a false sense of
> confidence, or that you might be worried your consulting job will be
> on the line. Any business with concerns for their IT systems will
> still have experts to manage things.

Unskilled users have no business running servers. This is where a lot of 
you and a fair few of us differ. And no, sharing a folder is not quite 
running a server even if it is a service. To use Microsoft's own terms, 
'workstation' operating systems can share folders no problemo but they 
call them anything but Windows xxx Server.

People who do not know/understand the rules/dangers should not be 
allowed to run servers even if they know the basics of operating a server.

So I don't know what you are furious about unless you are the type that 
gets furious for being 'not allowed' to drive on the street because you 
do not have a license.

> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Christopher Chan
> <christopher.chan at bradbury.edu.hk> wrote:
>>> If someone wants to make a tool that makes it easier for Windows
>>> admins to run Linux servers, I'm sure that would be useful to some.
>>> But to claim this as a cure-all for the perceived (but nonexistent)
>>> additional complexity is bogus.
>> I salute you, sir, for being humble enough to make this case with your
>> own experience.
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