Disappointed with Ubuntu Server, could be used by such a wider audience

[Stephan Hermann]

On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 03:51:35PM +0800, John McCabe-Dansted wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Stephan Hermann <sh at sourcecode.de> wrote:
> >Serious, for a normal familiy I would advise to by ready made
> >appliances..they are tested, and are usable (well not everytime, but
> 
> If a security flaw is found in such an appliance it would be much
> harder to patch than one found in software.
> It does have the advantage that getting root on the appliance doesn't
> necessarily give you root on the PC. However we could do something
> similar with VM's, chroot jails or Plash.

Well, what we want is a simple tool to make families life happier, not
scary. Yes, a security flaw on an appliance is serious, but having it
bought from vendor X and have trust in this company I hope a security
fix is on it's way. 
Regarding Ubuntu, yes, we do security updates, but I don't think people
are following the -security ML or are interested in "XSS exploit in
wordpress". Normally when you have such an appliance, everything goes
automatically, and you don't need to put your hands on.

Again, don't think like an expert...think like Mr. Smith and Mrs.
Robinson.

> 
> > And
> > the work to stay up2date is much more then you imagine...even on Ubuntu
> > and even with apt.
> > You know, people with windows, they always get this little icon with
> > updates available...how many of them are doing the updates everytime
> > this pops up? (same question also comes for ubuntu or any linux distro
> > in general).
> 
> If a large part of the security model is having a trained monkey wait
> for updates to appear and click yes then the security model and UI is
> broken and should be fixed. I don't analyze updates to see if they are
> "good" or not (how can I? they are binary). I can see only two
> advantages to manual updates:  if an update seriously breaks things we
> get more warning and we can decide to not update packages that we
> intend to remove. These seem easier to work around than being hacked.

Ok and here it comes: Windows Updates don't say what is being fixed,
actually nobody is interested, and most of the people I know are not
caring about security anyways. Therefore, an automatic way of applying
(security-) updates is necessary, but this integrated in the normal
ubuntu desktop / ubuntu server will be a marketing desaster.

For a home entertainment server this would be a good idea.

> 
> > I do like the idea of an entainment home server or a media center
> > edition of ubuntu, but it shouldn't be used for webserver or smtp
> > server at home (*shiver*)
> 
> Having e.g. a simple webserver can be a handy way of copying files
> from machine to machine. Ironically it is much easier to get windows
> to talk to an http server than samba.

why would someone want that? If you need to copy files from one notebook
to the pc, you are much more experienced then the normal family. An
appliance can give you that possibility easily without thinking about
it. But having all this pre-configured on ubuntu-desktop or server will
again be a marketing desaster and a kick in all ubuntu pros bum.

There is no easy way to give all people what they want.
At least: You need to setup all yourself, or you buy a good appliance
which fits your needs. 
Setting up all yourself without any clue about what you need to do, is
IMHO a no go. 
Regarding the security aspect of appliances, there is a point, but I pay
for it, so I have hands on the company who produced the appliance, and
if they are not providing everything to make me happy and safe, there is
always the possibility to go to court.

Regards,
\sh