Default Browser Follow-up

[Petko Ditchev]

 From what I've read: The majority of Ubuntu users like Firefox , but 
Chromium is better from a developer (Ubuntu-developer) standpoint 
because of WebKit , and is no less feature-rich or user-friendly. 
Firefox will remain until Chromium gets better support on the Ubuntu 
side , and until the people defending Firefox tire and come to terms 
with the decision. Am I missing something ? (everything's pretty 
reasonable , since FF isn't going away from the repos)

Petko

On 13.08.2013 20:19, Rick Spencer wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Benjamin Kerensa <bkerensa at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Jason Warner
>> <jason.warner at canonical.com> wrote:
>>> Hi All -
>>>
>>> Here's the latest follow-up on the default browser for 13.10 discussion.
>>>
>>> Some great points were raised about the historic pattern of updates around
>>> Chromium.
>>>
>>> First, to get the formalities out the way, Firefox remains the default for
>>> 13.10.
>>>
>>> Second, I'd like to talk about the Chromium issues raised. It was rightly
>>> pointed out that there have been issues keeping up with Chromium changes.
>>> The big issue was with Web Apps integration and some changing APIs. Since
>>> we've introduced Web Apps changes like this have always caused us some
>>> grief. Web Apps have always been an interim step until we were able to get a
>>> more self contained web apps container. That work is planned for 13.10 and
>>> progressing well[1]. This should be done for 13.10 and very much refined for
>>> 14.04.
>>>
>>> Lastly, I do want to consider Chromium by default for 14.04 once the above
>>> is no longer an issue. I sincerely believe Chromium is the better experience
>>> for general users and should be strongly considered for our next LTS.
>> You have not provided any criteria as to why Chromium would provide a
>> better experience for general users. I think its important to note
>> that so far there has been more opposition by developers and users to
>> making Chromium the default.
> Have these reasons not been discussed ad naseum? I think most
> developers probably consider this a relatively minor decision that
> Jason and the desktop team are well position to make. I don't believe
> there will be any 100% consensus on this issue, and it's clear that
> Jason has been very active in soliciting and considering input and
> different points of view. At the end of the day, someone needs to make
> a decision, and in Ubuntu, we must entrust the people doing the work
> to make decisions.
>
>> Without out any evidence of a greater experience I think it would be a
>> poor decision to flip default on millions of users.
> " Greater experience" is subjective so I don't think there will be a
> lot of "evidence" that can't be counter pointed on either side.
>
> I get that some people are passionate about Firefox. Some people are
> passionate about Chromium. There were folks passionate about Banshee
> and folks passionate about Rhythmbox. There were folks passionate
> about Pdigin, and folks passionate about Empathy. The beauty of Ubuntu
> is that a decision can be made about a default around which we can
> rally for consistency and integration and low complexity for users,
> but the default in no way limits anyone's freedom or their ability to
> contribute to those projects that they care about. Deciding that
> Chromium is the better browser for the default in Ubuntu is not saying
> Firefox is a bad browser, or even that Firefox is not better for some
> people in some situations.
>
>> If you could provide some solid technical justifications that motivate
>> this discussion having been started it might be helpful in understand
>> why such a change is proposed. If there is something lacking in
>> Firefox then perhaps a dialogue can be started upstream and I would be
>> happy to help guide such a discussion.
> I find that these kind of discussions are rarely effective and can
> easily cause hard feelings. The problem when choosing between 2
> similar pieces of upstream software is that it is rarely the case that
> one of them stands still. So we've had situations where an upstream
> implements requirements so that they can be default, but the
> "competing" upstream meanwhile enhanced their product and so remained
> the better choice. The first upstream then felt burned because playing
> "catch up" did not work. So, when considering requirements, in my
> epxerience it's generally better not to go down this road and rather
> judge the products based on their current implementations, their
> support models, and their road maps.
>
> In terms of "why is the discussion started" we must acknowledge that
> Chromium is a very popular browser, works very well, but did not exist
> all those years ago when Firefox was included as default in Ubuntu.
> The desktop team wouldn't be doing their job if they weren't asking
> these questions.
>
> Cheers, Rick
>