[Ubuntu-ch] Language

[DigiSus]

Hassan El Jacifi wrote:
> Le samedi 25 octobre 2008 à 20:36 +0200, Dirk Deimeke a écrit :
>> You are far from being united in any way ...
> 
> Any way, it's your point of view. And I respect it.
> But I will not let you destroy this community and our goal.

Not remotely does Dirk try to "destroy" anything. In my opinion, this 
language and insinuation [Unterstellung] is misplaced and not the way 
new members should be treated here. Hassan, with all due respect, I 
would suggest that you take it back.

Dirk, like any other new member joining this ML, has every right to 
question all aspects of the status quo -- stuff that seems to be a 
"given" for the rest of us. In fact, I believe new & engaged people are 
the only way preventing this (or any other) group from getting 
self-complacent [selbstgefällig], stuck, and "members only". Dirk asks 
relevant questions in a very polite and considerate manner.

And one last thing: no single individual will ever be able to "destroy" 
this community and no single individual will ever be able to "rescue" 
it. That would be hubris [Selbstüberschätzung] in either case.

To the language topic:

I have no clear opinion on the language question because all solutions 
have advantages and disadvantages. I agree with Dirk that we exclude 
people by sticking to English -- or any one language. Using English 
"just fine" on the ML for some time does not mean anything except: 
English-speaking lists attract English speaking people. Not surprising, 
is it?

The most inclusive approach would be to allow all relevant languages: 
D/F/I/E. But the linear logic of a mailing list does undermine this, I 
think. Maybe a different technical solution would be more suitable -- a 
web-based forum with 4 language sections? It certainly would be more 
inclusive in the sense that everybody could write in the preferred 
language. Everybody could get information in different languages -- 
something not possible via the ML today.

Of course, ubunteros would pick their preferred language section and 
that could "split" the community. Well, I think this has already 
happened and that is how I understood Dirk's comment about not being 
united. Think about it: Even people understanding -all- national 
languages but no English are structurally excluded by a single-language 
  ML in English. We, the current people -on- the English list, do not 
hear such complaints from the people left out -- for obvious reasons. 
But that does not mean "this language problem has ended " (Hassan). It 
only means we do not hear about it...

... except the rare cases when (new) people from "outside" like Dirk 
bring it up. IMHO, feedback should be treated as a gift and encouraged 
and not be considered as danger and avoided.

Have a nice Sunday,
Marcus


PS. @Dirk, please include info about -whom- you are quoting. I had to go 
back and forth to find out whom you were quoting in your posts. Thanks.



>> I know ... take a look at my mail address.
>> Due to my Ubuntu membership, I get in touch with many people who are
> not sure what to do and who to ask.
> 
> Don't forget you're not the only person on this mailing list who's Ubuntu membership .... 
> 
> 

> 
> Regards,
> 
> ---
> Hassan
> 
>