Re-imagining

Thu Apr 11 01:19:24 UTC 2013

Hi! This is my first post here but I've been subscribing to the list for a
while and reading the messages.

I really feel that the national loco is important as the only obvious place
(that I know of, please someone correct me if I'm wrong.) for Canadian
users to get support. I think there needs to be a minimum level of
leadership to facilitate good communication.

I think advocating should be left to the city groups if they exist and are
interested. Here in Calgary the only interaction I have ever had with
another Ubuntu user was making him wonder 'Why is he staring?' as I
eyeballed the sticker on his laptop bag in passing. (OMG I'M NOT THE ONLY
ONE!!) This area has two million people and I've seen the one guy.

    Even if ubuntu-stickered-laptop-guy and I were to start a local group I
have to question the usefulness of spending time on advocacy given that
I'll be spending just as much time helping 90% of users I do manage to
convert reinstall Windows. Everyone thinks this is cool until the Netflix
website no longer functions or they learn there's no way to properly sync
their iPhone, Android, Sony PSP/Vita, GPS, etc. Mention that there's no
iTunes / Exchange / Internet Explorer (seriously) and watch the tears of
frustration begin. There's also functionality that Windows has that is
disabled or in some cases not present in Ubuntu. For example without
modifying a certain rather scary text file a user cannot raise the priority
of a running process through the System Monitor. The option is there in the
context menu but unless /etc/security/limits.conf is modified a certain way
it will come up as access denied. I got to explain to a friend once why he
didn't have permission to re-raise the priority of a process he had just
lowered.
UFW as a firewall seriously looks like an April Fools joke to someone
coming from Windows. It did to me when I started using Hardy on a Dell
netbook years ago. The amount of research it has taken to get UFW working
correctly with samba, ssh, mediatomb, torrent clients, and the World Wide
Web itself far outweighs the benefit from the added control. Ubuntu may not
ship with open ports but once you open them there is no real protection
without hours of busywork in front of the computer entering the ports of
every app you do and don't want to access the internet, one by one. God
forbid you want to use Transmission for bittorrent and also firewall
outgoing traffic, *you can't with UFW.*
I could go on listing things forever.

I think city groups are great when and where they work. I wish we had one
in Calgary; it would be nice to get out more, in fact. ;) This doesn't mean
we don't need a central list. If someone on AskUbuntu were to ask a
question about a Telus mobile broadband connection, for example such a
question would be closed as too localized. It's easy to refer a user who
speaks English and shows up as being from Canada to this list. Were this
not here I don't know where they would go to find someone who knows what a
'Telus' is. I don't know to where I would refer them for help.

Just my five cents (because two rounds down now!)

Mark

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Darcy Casselman <dscassel at gmail.com> wrote:

> What I disagree with is I don't think Ubuntu Canada is the place for the
> strong, effective leadership.
>
> Because I think leadership is way easier and works way better in person
> than over the Internet.
>
> I think we need city teams with strong leaders who use Ubuntu Canada to
> communicate and collaborate on shared goals.  And occasionally butt heads
> and work out compromises, but mostly those disagreements don't matter that
> much in practical terms.
>
> But that's just because, having run this thing for 3 years, I don't see
> Ubuntu Canada is being much more than a mailing list and some
> administrative vapourware.
>
> If a strong leader were to step into Ubuntu Canada and whip us into shape
> (it ain't gonna be me, btw), it *could* work, but that person really has no
> effective power to do anything or make anything happen.  Besides their own
> charisma, I suppose.  It'd be a really hard job, without a lot of reward.
> I just don't see it happening.
>
> At a city level, sure.  And what you tend to see is city teams
> masquerading as regional/national LoCos, but there's not much that one city
> team can do to make things happen in other cities, no matter how great
> their leader is.  Serve as an example, maybe, but that's about it.
>
> Darcy.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, David M. Pelly <david.pelly at hotmail.ca>wrote:
>
>> I like good strong leadership  and enough good control to achieve the
>> goals.
>>
>> Not too much, not too little.
>>
>>
>>
>> And yes.  I think Ubuntu Canada needs more control, good control.
>>
>> I don't like wishy- washy leadership or poor control.
>>
>> Simply  because with poor or weak leadership, and poor or weak control,
>>    nothing good happens.
>>
>> It is like having E.D.
>>
>>
>>
>> I like following good leadership.
>>
>> I like being part of an organization with strong leadership.
>>
>> I like seeing good things happen.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now that being said:
>>
>>
>> What part (s)  of what I said do you not agree with?
>>
>> Or what part (s) of it are not true?
>>
>> Or what part(s) of it would not make a better, more effective
>> organization?
>>
>>
>> I stand corrected.
>>
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:15:36 -0400
>>
>> Subject: Re: Re-imagining
>> From: dscassel at gmail.com
>> To: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
>>
>> I don't entirely agree, but I think the control you're talking about
>> comes from the Ubuntu Code of Conduct and the ultimate authority of the
>> Ubuntu Community Council (which has delegated LoCo matters to its LoCo
>> Council subcommittee).
>>
>> Nationally, I don't think we need "control" over city teams.  The way
>> things are currently we need some way to decide, say, who maintains the
>> mailing list and who gets the emails from the LoCo council.  And that's
>> mostly me because I decided to pick up that stuff which had been left
>> neglected years ago.
>>
>> Leaders tend to arise from the city teams by virtue of them being the
>> person who does things.
>>
>> I feel like we're drifting wildly into generalities, though.   Do you
>> think Ubuntu Canada has a problem with leadership and/or control?  Should
>> it have more?  Less?  From my perspective, I have a hard time seeing how it
>> could have much less, but then it'd be hard for me to resent myself.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:00 PM, David M. Pelly <david.pelly at hotmail.ca>wrote:
>>
>> About control:
>>
>> The point that has to be known and understood is that nothing can be
>> accomplished without control and leadership.
>>
>> In order to be effective and achieve it's goals, every organization must
>> have mandates,  mission statements,  codes of conduct, and codes of ethics.
>>
>>
>> In order to succeed everything must have  system, order and control.
>>
>> And it's members need to have a good sense of common sense, useful
>> intelligence, need to have their heads screwed on right,  a good sense of
>> right and wrong, good reasoning abilities,  good logic, good life skills,
>> good people skills, good getting along skills,  good team work skills,
>> need  to be properly educated, have good character and good work ethics, be
>> responsible and the like.
>>
>> There are  a lot of factors and qualities that make up a good person.
>>
>> And any organization is only as good as it's members.
>>
>> And anyone is only as good as they have been bred, brought up, trained
>> and educated.
>>
>>
>>
>> And there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything.
>>
>> There is good control and bad control.
>>
>> Think about controlling your life,  your family, your career.
>>
>> Or the place you work.
>>
>> Without  good control, the right kind of control,  everything will self
>> destruct.
>>
>> If it is with you and your car,  without properly controlling it,  you
>> know what happens.
>>
>> Without  good control one's personal life does not get anywhere.
>>
>> Without good control  a person's life is like a leaf in the  wind.
>>
>>
>> So good control, the right kind of control is good and necessary.
>>
>> The better the leadership, the better the control,  the more successful
>> the organization.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>  For all your days be prepared, and meet them ever alike.
>>
>>
>>
>> When you are the anvil, bear - when you are the hammer, strike.
>>  Edwin Markham
>> <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edwin_markham.html>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edwin_markham.html>
>> In vain we build a world,  if at first we don't build the man. Edwin
>> Markham <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edwin_markham.html>
>>
>>
>> In vain we build anything,  unless at first we build the man.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/edwin_markham.html>
>>  Read more at
>> http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/edwinmarkh158684.html#E7dvgvcHs6fbT3qv.99
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 14:49:22 -0400
>> Subject: Re: Re-imagining
>> From: dscassel at gmail.com
>> To: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com
>>
>>
>> I'm not arguing for "centralization of control."  Who has time for
>> control?
>>
>> Like I've said, I'm all for city teams being more formally established as
>> a thing and more formally recognized by the LoCo council (my take on the
>> Moscow ridiculousness is here:
>> http://ubuntu.5.x6.nabble.com/Re-Ubuntu-Moscow-LoCo-tp5019872p5020043.html).
>>
>>
>> I see the broader LoCo team, whatever its boundaries, as being a
>> communication and collaboration mechanism.  (That and I like the Ubuntu
>> Canada logo better than anything I could come up with for Ubuntu Waterloo,
>> so I'd probably prefer to make stickers of that to put on my laptop).
>>
>> Darcy.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Kip Warner <kip at thevertigo.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 2013-04-09 at 18:56 -0400, Darcy Casselman wrote:
>> > It is arbitrary.  The goal, I think, is to subdivide the world into
>> large
>> > areas that catch everybody.  Limiting to *only* cities wouldn't catch
>> > everybody and in all but a few cases wouldn't, again, have the traffic
>> to
>> > justify the *online* community.
>>
>> It would be better to allow them to form organically at whatever size
>> and over whatever locality they choose to. If there is a desire to
>> create both an Ubuntu Russia LoCo as well as an Ubuntu Moscow LoCo, so
>> be it. It should be overly clear to all of us of an internet generation
>> the fallacy of over reliance on centralization of control.
>>
>> --
>> Kip Warner -- Software Engineer
>> OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred
>> http://www.thevertigo.com
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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