Re-imagining

Wed Apr 10 22:34:23 UTC 2013

Yes,  I agree with you 100%.

I did not mean whipping or using some sort of force as a leadership.

That is false leadership.

True leadership  happens energetically.  

It is a certain  ability , a "beingness"  and "presence".

You just know it when you see it or experience it.

Some people have it naturally,  for others it is learned.

Charisma can be part of it  or not. 

David

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:22:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Re-imagining
From: dscassel at gmail.com
To: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com

What I disagree with is I don't think Ubuntu Canada is the place for the strong, effective leadership.  

Because I think leadership is way easier and works way better in person than over the Internet.  

I think we need city teams with strong leaders who use Ubuntu Canada to communicate and collaborate on shared goals.  And occasionally butt heads and work out compromises, but mostly those disagreements don't matter that much in practical terms.

But that's just because, having run this thing for 3 years, I don't see Ubuntu Canada is being much more than a mailing list and some administrative vapourware.  

If a strong leader were to step into Ubuntu Canada and whip us into shape (it ain't gonna be me, btw), it *could* work, but that person really has no effective power to do anything or make anything happen.  Besides their own charisma, I suppose.  It'd be a really hard job, without a lot of reward.  I just don't see it happening.

At a city level, sure.  And what you tend to see is city teams masquerading as regional/national LoCos, but there's not much that one city team can do to make things happen in other cities, no matter how great their leader is.  Serve as an example, maybe, but that's about it.

Darcy.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, David M. Pelly <david.pelly at hotmail.ca> wrote:

I like good strong leadership  and enough good control to achieve the goals.

Not too much, not too little.

And yes.  I think Ubuntu Canada needs more control, good control.

I don't like wishy- washy leadership or poor control.

Simply  because with poor or weak leadership, and poor or weak control,    nothing good happens.

It is like having E.D.

I like following good leadership.

I like being part of an organization with strong leadership.

I like seeing good things happen. 

Now that being said:

What part (s)  of what I said do you not agree with?

Or what part (s) of it are not true? 

Or what part(s) of it would not make a better, more effective organization?

I stand corrected. 

David 

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:15:36 -0400

Subject: Re: Re-imagining
From: dscassel at gmail.com
To: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com

I don't entirely agree, but I think the control you're talking about comes from the Ubuntu Code of Conduct and the ultimate authority of the Ubuntu Community Council (which has delegated LoCo matters to its LoCo Council subcommittee).

Nationally, I don't think we need "control" over city teams.  The way things are currently we need some way to decide, say, who maintains the mailing list and who gets the emails from the LoCo council.  And that's mostly me because I decided to pick up that stuff which had been left neglected years ago.

Leaders tend to arise from the city teams by virtue of them being the person who does things.  

I feel like we're drifting wildly into generalities, though.   Do you think Ubuntu Canada has a problem with leadership and/or control?  Should it have more?  Less?  From my perspective, I have a hard time seeing how it could have much less, but then it'd be hard for me to resent myself.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:00 PM, David M. Pelly <david.pelly at hotmail.ca> wrote:

About control:

The point that has to be known and understood is that nothing can be accomplished without control and leadership.

In order to be effective and achieve it's goals, every organization must have mandates,  mission statements,  codes of conduct, and codes of ethics.

In order to succeed everything must have  system, order and control.

And it's members need to have a good sense of common sense, useful intelligence, need to have their heads screwed on right,  a good sense of right and wrong, good reasoning abilities,  good logic, good life skills, good people skills, good getting along skills,  good team work skills, need  to be properly educated, have good character and good work ethics, be responsible and the like.

There are  a lot of factors and qualities that make up a good person.

And any organization is only as good as it's members. 

And anyone is only as good as they have been bred, brought up, trained and educated. 

And there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything.

There is good control and bad control.

Think about controlling your life,  your family, your career.

Or the place you work.

Without  good control, the right kind of control,  everything will self destruct.

If it is with you and your car,  without properly controlling it,  you know what happens.

Without  good control one's personal life does not get anywhere.

Without good control  a person's life is like a leaf in the  wind. 

So good control, the right kind of control is good and necessary.

The better the leadership, the better the control,  the more successful the organization.

David 

For all your days be prepared, and meet them ever alike. 

When you are the anvil, bear - when you are the hammer, strike.

Edwin Markham 

In vain we build a world,  if at first we don't build the man. Edwin Markham 

In vain we build anything,  unless at first we build the man. 

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/edwinmarkh158684.html#E7dvgvcHs6fbT3qv.99 

Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 14:49:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Re-imagining
From: dscassel at gmail.com
To: ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com

I'm not arguing for "centralization of control."  Who has time for control?  

Like I've said, I'm all for city teams being more formally established as a thing and more formally recognized by the LoCo council (my take on the Moscow ridiculousness is here: http://ubuntu.5.x6.nabble.com/Re-Ubuntu-Moscow-LoCo-tp5019872p5020043.html).  

I see the broader LoCo team, whatever its boundaries, as being a communication and collaboration mechanism.  (That and I like the Ubuntu Canada logo better than anything I could come up with for Ubuntu Waterloo, so I'd probably prefer to make stickers of that to put on my laptop).

Darcy.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Kip Warner <kip at thevertigo.com> wrote:

On Tue, 2013-04-09 at 18:56 -0400, Darcy Casselman wrote:

> It is arbitrary.  The goal, I think, is to subdivide the world into large

> areas that catch everybody.  Limiting to *only* cities wouldn't catch

> everybody and in all but a few cases wouldn't, again, have the traffic to

> justify the *online* community.

It would be better to allow them to form organically at whatever size

and over whatever locality they choose to. If there is a desire to

create both an Ubuntu Russia LoCo as well as an Ubuntu Moscow LoCo, so

be it. It should be overly clear to all of us of an internet generation

the fallacy of over reliance on centralization of control.

--

Kip Warner -- Software Engineer

OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred

http://www.thevertigo.com

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