Re-imagining

Tue Apr 9 15:29:28 UTC 2013

On 13-04-09 07:56 AM, ubuntu-ca-request at lists.ubuntu.com wrote:
> From: Ralph Janke <txwikinger at ubuntu.ca>
> To: The Canadian Ubuntu Users Community <ubuntu-ca at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: 
> Message-ID: <20130408161733.GF7685 at jankeconsulting.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 08:43:29AM -0700, Randall Ross wrote:
>> > On 13-04-08 07:07 AM, Ralph Janke <txwikinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > It would be very unfortunate to replace one Windows with another one. The idea
>>> > > of the FLOSS movement is not to replace Microsoft with a more tame Open Source
>>> > > version, which still eliminates choices for the user.
>> > Let's not introduce this false dilemma. We are in no danger of an Ubuntu
>> > monopoly.
> It was never raised as a dilemma, it was raised as a metapher explaining the 
> purpose of Open Source. 
Ubuntu's purpose is to break the monopoly, and in the process to bring
freedom to those who do not have it. I'm frankly not interested in the
nebulous thing that some refer to as "open source" any more than I am
interested in Colonels.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > More choices does not have to mean, more complicated. While I personally have
>>> > > never tried Mint, what I am hearing, it seems they are focus on the original goal
>>> > > by the *buntu community (at least as it was often stated) to create a Linux 
>>> > > distribution that is easy to use.
>> > There is an implication that Ubuntu's goal has changed. If anything it
>> > has become more prominently declared: Ubuntu is for everyone, regardless
>> > of their knowledge of technology.
> Maybe you have not been as long with Ubuntu as I have, so you may not be
> fully aware of the history. 
I've been involved long enough and deeply enough.
> The goals of Ubuntu have changed numerous times
> since I have been involved.
Not surprised.
>
> There is nothing wrong with changing goals, situations changing, so goals must
> too. However, the question is also if how the changes commence and what the
> consense about those changes are. In a volunteer community, there are very different
> group dynamics and motivations than in a business orgnaisation. If goals change, there
> is a chance that those do not align with the goals of members of the group. There is
> no reason to chatise those who do not ascribe to the same changes as the powers to be.
There is also a chance that some came to the community with goals and
aspirations that weren't aligned in the first place. I'm seeing people
leave in frustration when that becomes more obvious to them. Recently
that has been happening more often as Mark and team have been making
some very clear and bold statements.
> There is a reason why so many people seem to find more alignment with Mint, and I think
> we need to be aware and reflective about this fact.
I wish that community the best of luck. Since this is an Ubuntu list,
I'm going to focus on Ubuntu and leave the discussions about other
systems to their own list(s).
>
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > In this context, I would really like to see the DVD being mastered in a way
>>> > > that allows the user to choose between different desktops. While it can 
>>> > > be debated for infinity which desktop is the best, neither of them fits
>>> > > with everybody's requirements, and hence the choice is additive, not divisive.
>> > Most people that would enjoy Ubuntu (i.e. those still on the other side
>> > of the chasm) do not know or care what a DE is. If we suddenly got
>> > everybody who is not currently aware of Ubuntu (especially those who
>> > struggle with basic computing tasks) on "standard" Ubuntu and let them
>> > learn it for a year, then perhaps we could come back with some science
>> > and make smarter choices about defaults that make even the most
>> > difficult tasks simple. Right now the best data we have is what we have
>> > gathered is limited (from focus groups and community feedback.) Throwing
>> > a dozen DE's and variants at a person new to this Ubuntu world is not a
>> > kind way to introduce them to it. It's confusing.
> People are not on the other side of the chasm, products are on one or the 
> other side. Furthermore this is exactly the 1337 attitude that drives so
> many people away from the *buntu community. Why do you think you know better
> than the person who wants to use a product. 
I've met several thousand people in Vancouver in the context of Ubuntu
and I think I'm in a position to have a fairly good idea about the
pattern. Most people I've met just want their computer to work and don't
want a history lesson nor dozens of DE's and options. They want a clear
path and want to trust that intelligent choices have been made that will
help them.
> Are you omniscient? 
See above.
> Do you
> ever listen while you advocate or is your understanding of advocating
> a cheap knockoff of an MLM system? 
See above.
> In fact this all sounds like from the
> handbook of a used-car salesperson.
Thanks for the compliment.
>
> The emancipation of the user is our strength in Open Source, not their emasculation!
We obviously see empowerment in different terms.
>
>>> > >
>>> > > A good role I could LoCo see to take on is to create an environment to bounce
>>> > > around ideas. I believe collaboration is the big social part of Open Source, not
>>> > > only Ubuntinis. It would be great if you could make strides in this regard. 
>> > I sense an implication that Ubuntu Vancouver (inventor of the Ubuntini)
>> > is about "only Ubuntinis". If that is indeed the implication, then that
>> > is not only a comment that is sadly insensitive to the dozens of
>> > volunteers who make our group special, but also highly inaccurate. I
>> > can't recall ever seeing you at an Ubuntu Vancouver event, and I have
>> > been to over 130 of them so I'm curious why you'd make this apparent
>> > false assumption.
>> > 
>> > I will add that collaboration can and does take many forms, and the
>> > product of collaboration needn't be code. Ubuntu groups in cities and
>> > towns everywhere should think outside the (code) box to see where
>> > there's local a gap in Ubuntu, and fill that gap. In our case, the gap
>> > was that 99% of people in our city had never heard of Ubuntu, and if
>> > they had, they weren't using it, and if they were they weren't aware
>> > that they could meet other people and help make it more fun and more useful.
>> >
> Well, our town is heavily technology based and hence we may not fit the
> Vancouver model. 
I'd imagine that even in the heaviest tech-based towns there are still a
lot of people that would fit. Silicon Valley is a good example. Not
everyone there is about tech, despite it being recognized as a tech hub.
> And even if, not everybody who has an interest in the 
> *buntu community has necessarily an interest in the Vancouver model. If
> you had the courtesy to read my sentence you would have noticed that I am
> asking for diversity in the approach and not asking to eliminate any of them.
> Only because something works for you, does not mean it works for everybody.
I'll repeat: Find the gap in your town/city and fill it. In *our* case,
that gap was advocacy and awareness.
>
> What I am seeing is that we have here a huge talent base in regards of technology
> and coding, and sadly I have to say, there is a big gap that is not filled. 
> Hence, there is a big reason to fill it, but since I have never seen you here, 
> I will forgive you your false asumptions.
If your town/city needs coding/tech projects, then I'd recommend that
you find ways to get the coders interested.
>  
>> > We (UVLC) are making good progress spreading Ubuntu in our city and
>> > around the world. And if that requires that we occasionally raise an
>> > Ubuntini and toast the success of the Ubuntu project and philosophy, and
>> > if some people find that offensive or wish to mock or belittle us, then
>> > that's unfortunate. We will not stop though. Nor will we make any
>> > apologies for having fun while doing it.
>>> > >
> Well, nice for you, and good luck for the future. I do not see this concept 
> working here for several years now, and I am ready to move on and try a different
> concept that hopefully will yield better results. 
Thank you for letting us know and I hope you'll bring great success to
Ubuntu and to your city with that concept. When you do I hope you'll
share the formula for cities that match yours.
> Fortunately, it is Open Source,
> and we can fork it :-
>
> Ralph
>
>>> > > Ralph
>> > Randall,
>> > Ubuntu Vancouver Buzz Generator


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