[Ubuntu-bugcontrol] Application from Jeremy Bicha (jbicha)

[C de-Avillez]

On Tue, 2010-05-18 at 18:30 +0200, Jorrit Kronjee wrote:
> C.,

Hi Jorrit,

> 
> I recently joined this mailing list, but as I'm still trying to figure
> out if this is what I want to spend some of my spare time on, I have not
> officially joined the bug squad yet. I do have a strong opinion about
> one thing you said, and that's why I'm replying.
> 
> 
> > * how you interact with the original poster (OP): being courteous is as
> > important as being knowledgeable. Even more, courtesy is not an inbred
> > trait, but must be exercised continuously.
> > * explaining why some action is needed and how to get it done. We should
> > never assume (unless we know the OP) that the OP understands Ubuntu,
> > Linux, etc.
> >
> 
> snip.
> 
> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/marble/+bug/574450 User
> >> looking for marble wallpaper
> > 
> > Correct answer, but too terse. Lacks being nice, and an explanation of
> > how to install the wallpaper. Also lacks an explanation of why it was
> > set to Invalid.
> 
> I looked at the bug report and some of the comments you made and I don't
> agree with you when it comes to making assumptions. You will always make
> assumptions. And I think the assumption that the OP knows a thing or two
> about Ubuntu is a reasonable assumption to make. There are plenty of
> other information sources out there for the absolute newbies. A
> bugtracker is not the right place for them.

I stand corrected. We all make assumptions, continuously. But I disagree
in that it should be assumed the OP knows "enough" about Ubuntu, package
management, and bugs in general. We should use common sense, and adjust
to the *perceived* level of expertise of the OP. There is just one
caveat I would like to keep: if in doubt, assume (yes, there we go) the
OP does *not* know, and explain. This actually helps make the whole
process faster, minimising the back-and-forth. This, though, is based on
my own experience and, as such, YMMV.

> 
> To put it in other words, if someone reports a bug including stack
> trace, explanation on how to reproduce and a patch, not assuming that
> that person knows his stuff, would be insulting.

I agree. There is a fine line between being helpful and condescending.
Your example is of someone with a probable deep knowledge of programming
and dump reading.

> 
> Concerning the courtesy, and I might be alone in this, but I just want
> the person dealing with the bug to be knowledgeable. Explain to me what
> is happening, but don't beat around the bush. I saw on the wiki page
> HowToTriage that most of the answer templates start with the sentence
> "Thank you for taking the time to make Ubuntu better". Actually, all of
> them have some form of gratitude in them. And it just doesn't look very
> sincere to me as a user.

I feel that being nice is not beating around the bushes: it does not
take that much time, after all. Additionally, email is known not to
carry all the clues we use when we are talking face-to-face (or
ear-to-ear)... so being nice *may* help to take out a potential sting.

> 
> I won't feel insulted if someone just tells me that my bug was marked a
> duplicate. Or that they were unable to reproduce it. Especially with
> people whose native language isn't English (like me!), I understand very
> well that courtesy might not come naturally. And that is just fine with me.

I, personally, do not *require* others to be nice to me. Very much like
you, I can live without it. I also agree that 'nice but ignorant' is not
much of a help. But I would rather be 'nice and knowledgeable' than
otherwise.

> 
> Regards,

Thank you. I do hope we keep on and get Ubuntu to be better.

Cheers,

..C..
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 198 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/attachments/20100518/74069f48/attachment.sig>