[ubuntu-art] Whats Up with This?

[Kenneth Wimer]

On Tuesday 01 July 2008 14:57:23 Julian Oliver wrote:
> ..on or around Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 03:27:16PM +0300 SorinN wrote:
> > regarding:
> > > See the complaints? We cannot let this happen. This theme is even worse
> > > then the default of Hardy....
> >
> > 1. Well my question is about "worse" word. What is so worse .. ?
> >
> > 2. indeed some things could be improved. Scrollbars  are almost
> > invisible - which is not good - always you have to loose 1 or 2
> > seconds to focus your look to see if is something scrollable or not -
> > but if the bar is colored and visible you will know from start if  is
> > something to scroll....
> >
> > It's clear, the author is not a fervent reader of usability books -
> > but hey - the rest is pretty clear and clean - he has talent he need
> > ideas / help not this kind of remarks.
> >
> > 3. Criticism must be "positive" - I mean -> if something is not good
> > -> let solve the problem, talk about problems not shoot the people...
> > I'm got tired of  "Neanderthal positivism" on almost all places - this
> > community must think in a superior way.
> >
> > 4. Anyway this theme will make it's history between graphic artists,
> > gamers - not office dedicated peoples, etc. On my opinion is one if
> > the best dark theme that I see on last months - clearly defined
> > buttons, elegant metacity theme. The only drawback -> scrollbars not
> > visible.

I think that soriN made some pretty good points and understands things better 
than most, shown first and foremost through his/her interest in making 
constructive criticism instead of suggesting murdering me :-)

> regardless, it's clear that many people feel very strongly that they
> don't like the theme in its current iteration. i suggest you read some
> of their comments. my experience of it is also that it's a pretty poor
> dark theme.
>
>    
> http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=17409
>6756&m=299007113931&r=299007113931

Sorry but I fail to see how much intelligent feedback can be taken from that. 
Every release there are people wanting to kill me, say that I have smeared 
you-know-what everywhere, etc. In my experience it is an almost normal 
response. Remember we are still working on this theme - it will improve.

Realistically speaking we won't make this the default for 8.10 anyway, unless 
we can fix all the many problems apps seem to have using dark themes. For now 
it is a test which hurts nobody during an alpha.

I even question how many people are actually running the alpha and not just 
formulating their opinions based on screenshots. 

> from:
>
>    
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080629-horny-for-ubuntu-8-10-first-l
>ook-at-intrepid-ibex.html

Actually, I think that this description of the theme fits pretty well. I'll 
say it again, we are testing a dark theme to find out whether it is even 
possible to use one or not. We are collecting information the best way 
possible --> by putting a dark theme in an important distro which is seen by 
many BEFORE it really makes a difference (and while there is still time to 
revert).

> regardless, instead of just diving in there now and making changes - you
> fixing the scrollbars, me trying to return some sane contrast to the
> colour palette - i feel it would be wise to provide a central forum for
> /users/ of the theme to make constructive criticisms. it could take the
> form of a sticky thread setup by one of the moderators at Ubuntu Forums,
> alongside similar forums in other languages.

Several of the 3D elements need improvement. The scrollbars being the most 
blatant example. In order to change this, we'd need to pay a developer who 
knows the code to fulfill our wishes.

> currently, the criticisms are spread both too widely and in contexts not
> constructive to collating well-meaning, useful feedback..

I am in the process of creating a feedback page in which people can post the 
problems they are having with apps (and screenshots thereof) so that we get 
an overview of things and find out where the problems are. I'll post more 
about this soon. In any case it will not be a page in which people can vent 
their hatred and nasty comments - that is what the forum is for ;-) (the 
second half of that poorly formed sentence was a joke).

--
Ken