dreams and schemes

Tue Nov 5 19:24:58 UTC 2013

Note the subjectline.  Dreams and schemes implies that this is at best an untested theory, and assuming for the moment that this is something new and innovative, obviously there's no base of time prooven research and studies to build on. 
No barter will not pay for a cell phone network, gasoline refinery, nor expensive medical equiptment. It can on the other hand  greatly reduce the need for cash, creddit cards or bit coins. One could for example trade somthing that they grow, make or do for locally produced alcohol fuel, or even a welders time to make  a still so that a person or better yet a co-op could produce their own fuel. A doctor may not be able to  provide  MRI services free, but could certainly give consultations and in-house tests in exchange for work setting-up and maintaining an e-documents system, fresh vegies, or transportating her or his kids to swimming lessons, or the swimming lessons themselves. 
I believe that people who are interested in such arrangements are also more likely than the gneral population to see contributions to open source projects that benefit the society at large or under served sub-sets there of as worth "paying for" in some way. 
I don't think a completely cashless society is a practical efficient option, nor am I particularly interested in working towards this or most other extremes. 
There are any number of successful barter networks in existence today. Quite a few of these sprung up in response to the relatively high unemployment and under employment that we've seen in the last few years. (don't have the time to give any hard percentages, nor enough info to make an educated guess re this for that matter).    
Lastly, and most importantly I was chiming in to a conversation that had not only strayed rather far from the original topic, but gone pretty much  OT for the group. I was answering a "hale Mary pass" of a solution proposed by a fellow group member. Do those kind of passes always work? Of course not, and when they do they require excellent coordiniation and timing combined with athletic ability and perhaps some luck.
I for one won't be continuing this discussion here because I feel it's gone too OT for the group, and I don't have time to attempt to write more or less well crafted email that could possibly take the discussion/debate forward in useful directions. 
Some of the ideas I and others have mentioned are worth persuing, but as is usually the case starting with the small and doable  is much more valuable than proposing grandios dreams and hoping that others will decide to follow up. One must lead by example.
--
B.H.
 
  

On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 01:33:07PM -0500, Andy B. wrote:
> How does bardering with people pay the bills? Do you have time proven
> research that shows industries that are making a nation-wide sweep with this
> "bardering system", or is this a fruitless, wishful, and carefree dream?
> Bardering will never feed family, pay the phone bill, get the credit card
> collectors off my back, get me to and from the store 3 times a week, and let
> me keep my internet that is required for school. For this type of problem, a
> job is the best fix. The major problem I see in the US is that too many
> "blind people" want everything for free, they whine about anything that
> doesn't go their way, and believe employers should exempt them out of every
> minor aspect of a job that requires them to "work hard".
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: B. Henry [mailto:burt1iband at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:47 AM
> To: Andy B.
> Subject: Re: dreams and schemes
> 
> My take on the suggestion is not a social club/I'm totally uninterested in
> such an animal as there's not that much reason I'd have anything socially in
> common with blinks more than other folks. 
> I was considering the type of organization where qualified folks barter
> their skills for products and services with other people who are ot having
> success in the cash driven society. This is being done in who knows how many
> areas in the U.S. as a partial work arounnd for the unemployment crisis.
> Unemployment has always been a greater problem for the disabled in general
> and the bind in specific. When there's the kind of general ecoomic  crisis
> that so much of the world has been living over the last several  years we
> obviously have it even  worse.
> To be truly successful we'd need  more than blind people involved in our
> less cash society. It'd also require some truly top notch talent as well to
> get the attention  of others who were not onboard. 
> The only thing I see that might make this more than just another utopian
> dream/posibe footnote in history is our interconnectivity and instant global
> communication. Of course much needs to be done locally, e.g. a good driver
> in India won't be of much help to a  guy in Chile who  needs a ride, nor
> would a cook in England be able to get a good meal to a family in Canada for
> a reasonable price. On the other hand colaboration with folks across and
> around the world does open up many options that one could not have
> considered any where near practical even a generation ago. As we become a
> more connected world the talent pool will continue  to increase, so critical
> mass becomes more and more achievable. 
> Not saying that this will happen, not saying that for sure this is an idea
> whos time has come, but I'm saying that this is certainly one possible
> option that is certainly worth exploring by those who rightly  or wrongly
> feel that they have little chance of getting ahead in the more mainstream
> economic systems that surround them. 
>      
> 
> On Sat, Nov 02, 2013 at 07:47:36PM -0400, Andy B. wrote:
> > Taking money out of what tech positions, and why is creating a social 
> > club for "blind persons" going to get them a job?
> > 
> > Everyone has problems getting a job in today's mixed up world of 
> > economics and politics. I know someone with a PH.D. in medical 
> > research, and couldn't get a job at Dairy Queen. I can write C# code 
> > in Windows until my ears fall off, but can't get a tutoring job 
> > helping a high school student with programming fundamentals. Another 
> > friend has a Masters in Special ED. And couldn't find a teacher's 
> > assistant job through a temp agency... Almost every one of these people
> had 20/20 sight.
> > 
> > I'm not sure it is going to help much if some "blind" people get 
> > together with no intentions of working in the normal world.
> > 
> > Sorry for the rant... 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com
> > [mailto:ubuntu-accessibility-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of B. 
> > Henry
> > Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 4:29 PM
> > To: Doug Smith; Ubuntu Accessibility
> > Subject: dreams and schemes
> > 
> > Fair and far enough! 
> > I doubt I'll live to see any other star, nor earth critters traveling 
> > to one; but a viable sub-culture seems completely reasonable.
> > If we continue down this path of the "1%" vs. the "99%" then I think 
> > some groups must inevitably split off from, or better coaless out of the
> 99%.
> > Education is the key no matter what though, so thanks for the 
> > suggestions in other messages.
> > We're going pretty OT, but if one or 10 new contributers come out of 
> > this then this will be perhaps the most important thread I've ever 
> > seen on thhis mailing list.
> > Cheers.
> > --
> > B.H.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > On Fri, Nov 01, 2013 at 10:28:06PM -0400, Doug Smith wrote:
> > > Nuke degrees.  I am not the best at math, but I have real savant 
> > > skills when it comes to anything with a digital component.  I am 
> > > working with tutorials to try and catch up on the stuff that I 
> > > didn't have
> > access to in school.  I like coding, in fact, it's what I actually got 
> > this machine for, and I hope to put it to good use one day soon.
> > > 
> > > As for math, it was my worst skill in school, but having all the 
> > > math tools I have on here seems to solve that problem.  Once more, a 
> > > few
> > learning ally textbooks and some net-based tutorials can take care of 
> > the problem.
> > > 
> > > You're right, I think that, if we can take most or all the money out 
> > > of these tech situations, the best possibility for blind people to 
> > > be employed would be to form our own society, build some kind of 
> > > generation
> > ship and attempt to colonize another star.  This would keep the 
> > pervasive low expectations out of the equation as well and we would 
> > have only ourselves to blame if something went wrong.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Doug Smith: Special Agent
> > > S.W.A.T  Spiritual Warfare and Advanced Technology Forever serving 
> > > our LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list
> > > Ubuntu-accessibility at lists.ubuntu.com
> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
> > 
> 
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