Dead List Walking

Mike Basinger mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
Tue Apr 19 23:28:56 UTC 2011 

I wanted to make sure I was not getting hopes up.  

Is Sounder closing: yes
Would the CC listen to a suggestion something Sounder-like being created in the future: maybe but unlikely unless it was radically different

Mike

On Apr 19, 2011, at 5:21 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:

> So even though "nothing is final", it's final that Sounder is closing.
> Ok.  Makes sense if you don't think about it lol
> 
> Anthony
> 
> 
> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> Don't get your hopes up, sounder is closing. Could something else open in
>> the future, maybe, but unlikely.
>> 
>> Mike
>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>> 
>>> So there you have it everyone. There might be a chance to save Sounder
>>> yet. So let's discuss what changes might be needed in order to make
>>> this a list Canonical sees value in keeping and subscribers still can
>>> derive value from.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts? Ideas?
>>> 
>>> I'd like to *strongly* suggest loose moderation. Nothing too crazy but
>>> just enough to stop the religious and political wars from getting as
>>> hateful as they have.  I'd even volunteer to help out with that.
>>> 
>>> Anthony
>>> 
>>> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>> I can't speak for the rest of the CC, but in my opinion no decision final
>>>> since circumstances can change. I think it would have to be a fairly
>>>> large
>>>> change in how sounder is run and the tone of sounder post to get many of
>>>> us
>>>> to change our minds.
>>>> 
>>>> I personally think Sounder has ran its course and it is time to go.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't doubt that the list has been a concern for the CC for a while.
>>>>> The more I think about it, the more I see that shutting it down was a
>>>>> *logical* thing to do, especially in light of the fact that no
>>>>> alternatives were proposed to doing so.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As for popey not being emotionally driven, I'm not entirely convinced
>>>>> of that but it's irrelevant at this point and not worth debating
>>>>> really. I think a better question to focus on is "where do we go from
>>>>> here?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is the CC decision final? Is there no hope for sounder or can it still
>>>>> be saved if a good plan for its governance can be proposed to the CC?
>>>>> Like I said, shutting it down is logical in light of its current state
>>>>> but what other options are there?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anthony
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>>>> We were very surprised that no one showed up at the meeting to defend
>>>>>> Sounder or give any possible alternatives. As this being emotionally
>>>>>> driven
>>>>>> by popey, it was not. Sounder has been an issue on the CC radar for
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> time, popey just saw that thing were not improving.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike Basinger
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm not sure this is all Popey's fault.  While he certainly did
>>>>>>> spearhead the effort to shut down the list, it doesn't look like there
>>>>>>> was a whole lot of constructive alternatives discussed and, from what
>>>>>>> I saw, nobody even showed up to the CC meeting to defend Sounder. Of
>>>>>>> course, perhaps someone showed up late to the meeting as I'm not
>>>>>>> through the transcript yet but it looks like there was nobody.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm also not sure what the purpose of reforming the Sounder list
>>>>>>> somewhere else might be - or the value. While I've gotten value from
>>>>>>> this list, I have to say it's nothing that can't be found elsewhere.
>>>>>>> Want to discuss Ubuntu or Linux in general? There are lists for that.
>>>>>>> Politics? Tech? Religion? There are lists for those too. I'm not
>>>>>>> entirely convinced that a good list should or even can sustain all of
>>>>>>> those topics and keep quality.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The one thing I *can* and *do* fault popey on is that his decision to
>>>>>>> propose shutting Sounder down seems to have been more emotionally than
>>>>>>> critically motivated. It's even briefly addressed in the CC meeting
>>>>>>> because they knew many of us would see it that way. It all just seems
>>>>>>> a little to slap on the wrist for my tastes.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sad to see Sounder go but I suppose I can see both sides.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 4/19/11, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 19 April 2011 22:45, sktsee <sktseer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Heh, my first, and last post to this list.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Meeting 2011-04-19
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or
>>>>>>>>> ungoverned,
>>>>>>>>> on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on
>>>>>>>>> particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a
>>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>>> social release for those who use them, we think there are better
>>>>>>>>> forums
>>>>>>>>> for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are
>>>>>>>>> inside
>>>>>>>>> the project, most are elsewhere.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Transcript of IRC meeting log here:
>>>>>>>>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> sktsee
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
>>>>>>>> damn you all to hell!"
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Do folk think there's any point starting our own mailing list to
>>>>>>>> replace Sounder or should we just disband?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
>>>>>>>> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
>>>>>>>> AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lproven at hotmail.com • ICQ:
>>>>>>>> 73187508
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> sounder mailing list
>>>>>>>> sounder at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anthony Papillion
>>>>>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>>>>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>>>>>> (918) 919-4624
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>>>>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> sounder mailing list
>>>>>>> sounder at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mike Basinger
>>>>>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anthony Papillion
>>>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>>>> (918) 919-4624
>>>>> 
>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Mike Basinger
>>>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>> 
>>> Anthony Papillion
>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>> (918) 919-4624
>>> 
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>> 
>> --
>> Mike Basinger
>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my mobile device
> 
> Anthony Papillion
> Lead Developer / Owner
> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
> (918) 919-4624
> 
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com

--
Mike Basinger
mike.basinger at ubuntu.com

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