Dead List Walking

Tue Apr 19 23:21:55 UTC 2011

So even though "nothing is final", it's final that Sounder is closing.
Ok.  Makes sense if you don't think about it lol

Anthony

On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Don't get your hopes up, sounder is closing. Could something else open in
> the future, maybe, but unlikely.
>
> Mike
> On Apr 19, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>
>> So there you have it everyone. There might be a chance to save Sounder
>> yet. So let's discuss what changes might be needed in order to make
>> this a list Canonical sees value in keeping and subscribers still can
>> derive value from.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas?
>>
>> I'd like to *strongly* suggest loose moderation. Nothing too crazy but
>> just enough to stop the religious and political wars from getting as
>> hateful as they have.  I'd even volunteer to help out with that.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>> I can't speak for the rest of the CC, but in my opinion no decision final
>>> since circumstances can change. I think it would have to be a fairly
>>> large
>>> change in how sounder is run and the tone of sounder post to get many of
>>> us
>>> to change our minds.
>>>
>>> I personally think Sounder has ran its course and it is time to go.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> I don't doubt that the list has been a concern for the CC for a while.
>>>> The more I think about it, the more I see that shutting it down was a
>>>> *logical* thing to do, especially in light of the fact that no
>>>> alternatives were proposed to doing so.
>>>>
>>>> As for popey not being emotionally driven, I'm not entirely convinced
>>>> of that but it's irrelevant at this point and not worth debating
>>>> really. I think a better question to focus on is "where do we go from
>>>> here?"
>>>>
>>>> Is the CC decision final? Is there no hope for sounder or can it still
>>>> be saved if a good plan for its governance can be proposed to the CC?
>>>> Like I said, shutting it down is logical in light of its current state
>>>> but what other options are there?
>>>>
>>>> Anthony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>>> We were very surprised that no one showed up at the meeting to defend
>>>>> Sounder or give any possible alternatives. As this being emotionally
>>>>> driven
>>>>> by popey, it was not. Sounder has been an issue on the CC radar for
>>>>> some
>>>>> time, popey just saw that thing were not improving.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Basinger
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure this is all Popey's fault.  While he certainly did
>>>>>> spearhead the effort to shut down the list, it doesn't look like there
>>>>>> was a whole lot of constructive alternatives discussed and, from what
>>>>>> I saw, nobody even showed up to the CC meeting to defend Sounder. Of
>>>>>> course, perhaps someone showed up late to the meeting as I'm not
>>>>>> through the transcript yet but it looks like there was nobody.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm also not sure what the purpose of reforming the Sounder list
>>>>>> somewhere else might be - or the value. While I've gotten value from
>>>>>> this list, I have to say it's nothing that can't be found elsewhere.
>>>>>> Want to discuss Ubuntu or Linux in general? There are lists for that.
>>>>>> Politics? Tech? Religion? There are lists for those too. I'm not
>>>>>> entirely convinced that a good list should or even can sustain all of
>>>>>> those topics and keep quality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The one thing I *can* and *do* fault popey on is that his decision to
>>>>>> propose shutting Sounder down seems to have been more emotionally than
>>>>>> critically motivated. It's even briefly addressed in the CC meeting
>>>>>> because they knew many of us would see it that way. It all just seems
>>>>>> a little to slap on the wrist for my tastes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sad to see Sounder go but I suppose I can see both sides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/19/11, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 19 April 2011 22:45, sktsee <sktseer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Heh, my first, and last post to this list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Meeting 2011-04-19
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or
>>>>>>>> ungoverned,
>>>>>>>> on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on
>>>>>>>> particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a
>>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>>> social release for those who use them, we think there are better
>>>>>>>> forums
>>>>>>>> for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are
>>>>>>>> inside
>>>>>>>> the project, most are elsewhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Transcript of IRC meeting log here:
>>>>>>>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> sktsee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
>>>>>>> damn you all to hell!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do folk think there's any point starting our own mailing list to
>>>>>>> replace Sounder or should we just disband?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
>>>>>>> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
>>>>>>> AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lproven at hotmail.com • ICQ:
>>>>>>> 73187508
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> sounder mailing list
>>>>>>> sounder at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anthony Papillion
>>>>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>>>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>>>>> (918) 919-4624
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>>>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> sounder mailing list
>>>>>> sounder at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mike Basinger
>>>>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>>
>>>> Anthony Papillion
>>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>>> (918) 919-4624
>>>>
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Basinger
>>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>> Anthony Papillion
>> Lead Developer / Owner
>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>> (918) 919-4624
>>
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>
> --
> Mike Basinger
> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Anthony Papillion
Lead Developer / Owner
Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
(918) 919-4624

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com