Dead List Walking

Tue Apr 19 23:14:56 UTC 2011

Don't get your hopes up, sounder is closing. Could something else open in the future, maybe, but unlikely.

Mike
On Apr 19, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:

> So there you have it everyone. There might be a chance to save Sounder
> yet. So let's discuss what changes might be needed in order to make
> this a list Canonical sees value in keeping and subscribers still can
> derive value from.
> 
> Thoughts? Ideas?
> 
> I'd like to *strongly* suggest loose moderation. Nothing too crazy but
> just enough to stop the religious and political wars from getting as
> hateful as they have.  I'd even volunteer to help out with that.
> 
> Anthony
> 
> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> I can't speak for the rest of the CC, but in my opinion no decision final
>> since circumstances can change. I think it would have to be a fairly large
>> change in how sounder is run and the tone of sounder post to get many of us
>> to change our minds.
>> 
>> I personally think Sounder has ran its course and it is time to go.
>> 
>> Mike
>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>> 
>>> Mike,
>>> 
>>> I don't doubt that the list has been a concern for the CC for a while.
>>> The more I think about it, the more I see that shutting it down was a
>>> *logical* thing to do, especially in light of the fact that no
>>> alternatives were proposed to doing so.
>>> 
>>> As for popey not being emotionally driven, I'm not entirely convinced
>>> of that but it's irrelevant at this point and not worth debating
>>> really. I think a better question to focus on is "where do we go from
>>> here?"
>>> 
>>> Is the CC decision final? Is there no hope for sounder or can it still
>>> be saved if a good plan for its governance can be proposed to the CC?
>>> Like I said, shutting it down is logical in light of its current state
>>> but what other options are there?
>>> 
>>> Anthony
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>>>> We were very surprised that no one showed up at the meeting to defend
>>>> Sounder or give any possible alternatives. As this being emotionally
>>>> driven
>>>> by popey, it was not. Sounder has been an issue on the CC radar for some
>>>> time, popey just saw that thing were not improving.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike Basinger
>>>> 
>>>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not sure this is all Popey's fault.  While he certainly did
>>>>> spearhead the effort to shut down the list, it doesn't look like there
>>>>> was a whole lot of constructive alternatives discussed and, from what
>>>>> I saw, nobody even showed up to the CC meeting to defend Sounder. Of
>>>>> course, perhaps someone showed up late to the meeting as I'm not
>>>>> through the transcript yet but it looks like there was nobody.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm also not sure what the purpose of reforming the Sounder list
>>>>> somewhere else might be - or the value. While I've gotten value from
>>>>> this list, I have to say it's nothing that can't be found elsewhere.
>>>>> Want to discuss Ubuntu or Linux in general? There are lists for that.
>>>>> Politics? Tech? Religion? There are lists for those too. I'm not
>>>>> entirely convinced that a good list should or even can sustain all of
>>>>> those topics and keep quality.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The one thing I *can* and *do* fault popey on is that his decision to
>>>>> propose shutting Sounder down seems to have been more emotionally than
>>>>> critically motivated. It's even briefly addressed in the CC meeting
>>>>> because they knew many of us would see it that way. It all just seems
>>>>> a little to slap on the wrist for my tastes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sad to see Sounder go but I suppose I can see both sides.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anthony
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 4/19/11, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 19 April 2011 22:45, sktsee <sktseer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Heh, my first, and last post to this list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Meeting 2011-04-19
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is a
>>>>>>> decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or
>>>>>>> ungoverned,
>>>>>>> on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on the
>>>>>>> goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on
>>>>>>> particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a
>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>> social release for those who use them, we think there are better
>>>>>>> forums
>>>>>>> for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are
>>>>>>> inside
>>>>>>> the project, most are elsewhere.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Transcript of IRC meeting log here:
>>>>>>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> sktsee
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
>>>>>> damn you all to hell!"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Do folk think there's any point starting our own mailing list to
>>>>>> replace Sounder or should we just disband?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
>>>>>> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
>>>>>> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
>>>>>> AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lproven at hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> sounder mailing list
>>>>>> sounder at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anthony Papillion
>>>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>>>> (918) 919-4624
>>>>> 
>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> sounder mailing list
>>>>> sounder at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Mike Basinger
>>>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>> 
>>> Anthony Papillion
>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>> (918) 919-4624
>>> 
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>> 
>> --
>> Mike Basinger
>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my mobile device
> 
> Anthony Papillion
> Lead Developer / Owner
> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
> (918) 919-4624
> 
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com

--
Mike Basinger
mike.basinger at ubuntu.com