Dead List Walking

Tue Apr 19 23:04:30 UTC 2011

I can't speak for the rest of the CC, but in my opinion no decision final since circumstances can change. I think it would have to be a fairly large change in how sounder is run and the tone of sounder post to get many of us to change our minds.

I personally think Sounder has ran its course and it is time to go.

Mike
On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:43 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:

> Mike,
> 
> I don't doubt that the list has been a concern for the CC for a while.
> The more I think about it, the more I see that shutting it down was a
> *logical* thing to do, especially in light of the fact that no
> alternatives were proposed to doing so.
> 
> As for popey not being emotionally driven, I'm not entirely convinced
> of that but it's irrelevant at this point and not worth debating
> really. I think a better question to focus on is "where do we go from
> here?"
> 
> Is the CC decision final? Is there no hope for sounder or can it still
> be saved if a good plan for its governance can be proposed to the CC?
> Like I said, shutting it down is logical in light of its current state
> but what other options are there?
> 
> Anthony
> 
> 
> On 4/19/11, Mike Basinger <mike.basinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> We were very surprised that no one showed up at the meeting to defend
>> Sounder or give any possible alternatives. As this being emotionally driven
>> by popey, it was not. Sounder has been an issue on the CC radar for some
>> time, popey just saw that thing were not improving.
>> 
>> Mike Basinger
>> 
>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm not sure this is all Popey's fault.  While he certainly did
>>> spearhead the effort to shut down the list, it doesn't look like there
>>> was a whole lot of constructive alternatives discussed and, from what
>>> I saw, nobody even showed up to the CC meeting to defend Sounder. Of
>>> course, perhaps someone showed up late to the meeting as I'm not
>>> through the transcript yet but it looks like there was nobody.
>>> 
>>> I'm also not sure what the purpose of reforming the Sounder list
>>> somewhere else might be - or the value. While I've gotten value from
>>> this list, I have to say it's nothing that can't be found elsewhere.
>>> Want to discuss Ubuntu or Linux in general? There are lists for that.
>>> Politics? Tech? Religion? There are lists for those too. I'm not
>>> entirely convinced that a good list should or even can sustain all of
>>> those topics and keep quality.
>>> 
>>> The one thing I *can* and *do* fault popey on is that his decision to
>>> propose shutting Sounder down seems to have been more emotionally than
>>> critically motivated. It's even briefly addressed in the CC meeting
>>> because they knew many of us would see it that way. It all just seems
>>> a little to slap on the wrist for my tastes.
>>> 
>>> Sad to see Sounder go but I suppose I can see both sides.
>>> 
>>> Anthony
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/19/11, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 19 April 2011 22:45, sktsee <sktseer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Heh, my first, and last post to this list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/TeamReports/11/April
>>>>> 
>>>>> Meeting 2011-04-19
>>>>> 
>>>>>   CC decided to close the Sounders mailing list. In essence, this is a
>>>>> decision to prune areas of the project which are offtopic or ungoverned,
>>>>> on the basis that they distract from our shared community focus on the
>>>>> goal of delivering free software in the best possible state, on
>>>>> particular terms (free of charge, cadence). While we appreciate that the
>>>>> Sounders list (and possibly other, similar forums) provide a particular
>>>>> social release for those who use them, we think there are better forums
>>>>> for each of the varied topics discussed there. Some of those are inside
>>>>> the project, most are elsewhere.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Transcript of IRC meeting log here:
>>>>> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/19/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> sktsee
>>>> 
>>>> "We finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! Damn you. God
>>>> damn you all to hell!"
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks a ******* lot, Popey, you ****** ******* *******.
>>>> 
>>>> Do folk think there's any point starting our own mailing list to
>>>> replace Sounder or should we just disband?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
>>>> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
>>>> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
>>>> AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lproven at hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508
>>>> 
>>>> --
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>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>> 
>>> Anthony Papillion
>>> Lead Developer / Owner
>>> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
>>> (918) 919-4624
>>> 
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
>>> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> sounder at lists.ubuntu.com
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>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/sounder
>> 
>> --
>> Mike Basinger
>> mike.basinger at ubuntu.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my mobile device
> 
> Anthony Papillion
> Lead Developer / Owner
> Get real about your software/web development and IT Services
> (918) 919-4624
> 
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cajuntechie
> My Blog:   http://www.cajuntechie.com

--
Mike Basinger
mike.basinger at ubuntu.com