multimedia software

Matthew East wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 07:39 +0800, John wrote:
> 
>>Matthew East wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 17:20 +0800, John wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Marius Bock wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Is this a big issue? I am pretty sure installing java is relatively easy
>>>for anyone able to follow instructions
>>>(http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html#sect-java )
>>
>>
>>It's a huge issue. Start with the perfectly-reasonable assumption that 
>>your user doesn't know about gnome-terminal, konsole or bash prompts.
>>
>>Most computer users I know are like this. OTOH they could probably find 
>>"install java" on a menu and click it. Yhey might be able to choose 
>>correctly between "install just for me" and "install for everyone."
> 
> 
> As I said, I'm not expert, but I still disagree with you. It isn't such
> a huge issue, in my view, because:

Either you don't have tyro computer users, or you don't listen to your 
users:-(

Look at all the non-free stuff in /lib/hotplug/firmware. I have 88 files 
in there and I know for certain some are non-free, so clearly non-free 
isn't the issue.

> 
> * It's not free. 
> * People who want non-free software usually have a good reason (e.g. no
> free alternative etc).
> * It's reasonable to expect users who want non-free software and have a
> good reason to have to go through some (simple) steps to install it.

Users will use what's easiest to use, and Ubuntu isn't as easy as it 
could be.

Surely, the question should not be "Why can't we do this thing to help 
our users?" but rather, "How can we make it as easy as possible for our 
users?"

> * The Starter Guide has a step by step guide to installation which even
> the most vaguely motivated user can follow (yes, it uses the terminal,
> but it has an explanation of that too).
> 
> Perhaps the Ubuntu solution could be made better, yes. However a couple
> of alternative routes I would also suggest: 1. go to Sun and whinge,
> rather than Ubuntu, 2. go to Mozilla and whinge if firefox can't install
> the relevant plugin automatically (which I rather think it can).

The administrator in me tells me users installing software is bad:-) If 
they get used to installing stuff firefox suggests, then who's to say 
they won't think it okay to take a website's suggestion to go to 
evilfilesharer.com and download and install evilfilesharer?

_I_ refused to install software from a DVD I wanted to play, but fewer 
than 1% of Windows users would take that path. I'm immune to the Sony 
Rootkit because I won't do that, but very few are.

There is a considerable difference between installing software 
(somewhat) approved by Ubuntu (because there's an installer there) and 
installing plugins for firefox because some arbitrary website or some 
know-nothing music distributor says you should.

The reason I've not tried Fedora Core on my laptop is because I expect 
it will not work without some difficulty (no HAL for my wireless card). 
A distro such as Ubuntu has a great advantage over FC4 because it has 
non-free software (eg the HAL for my wireless card).

SuSE has the HAL and it has the JRE. Which do you suppose I will suggest 
if rhe JRE is important? (SuSE also has more software available 
immediately, and to me it's an advantage I don't have to download stuff 
not on my one, but that's a separate issue).