ubuntu for pagans

[Eric Dunbar]

On 6/20/05, Michael Shigorin <mike at osdn.org.ua> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2005 at 01:29:28AM -0400, shane wrote:
> > i have an interesting idea for ubuntu as i understand that
> > there will be developer tools coming out soon.....
<snip>
> > there are many millions of pagans in the world and there are no
> > operating systems slated to this genere of people(s) so i had
> > an idea based offa some things i know....
<snip>
> > there are many great windows programs that are for pagans using
> > xp themes and such but nothing totaly "paganized" for this
> > group of people....
> 
> JFYI: in Russian and Ukrainian "poganyj" (directly related to
> "pagan") means "bad", "poor", "wretched", "spoiled".
> 
> So why spoil software for spoiled people who even aren't creative
> enough to offer something, well, creative and not twisted, subtle
> and, um, eroding?

> Not that far ago there was a TYPO3 questionnaire run by some
> Dutch institute or so; there was one interesting question along
> "while TYPO3 is GPLed, what do you think about adding special
> statement on prohibiting its usage for porn/sexual, racist, ...
> sites?" with 5 bullets (++..0..--).
> 
> I've sure mangled the question and it's quite bad on my side but
> hope people here get the point -- although GPL is about freedom,
> it's also more about author's freedom.  And some of us care
> somewhat of our sleepless nights spent over the code to throw
> it at the swines' feet, kinda.

> > i just started using ubuntu a few monthes ago and i love
> > it....so i thought sense i was pagan maybe others might be
> > interested in this too....
> 
> Heh.  Curing some diseases like yours isn't exactly interesting,
> I can judge somewhat sine I was kind of that sometime, somewhere.
> Not letting them disseminate is harder though since being
> careless is easier than trying to find the sense of things...



> > it would bring millions of potental users away from windows and
> > make them want to use linux expecally if there was a distro
> > slated for there intrests......
> 
> If they have the same nice "stream of mind" writing habits, then
> I guess the maillists just would get flooded with wondering
> people asking (or demanding, as it happens with things-for-free)
> something they miss from their Windows environment and so on.
> 
> I'd even step on the soapbox and say that we don't really need
> those careless "millions of users".  We need those that *are*
> intelligent and *can* benefit from those developer tools, even if
> it's mathematician using "make" to automate his computative
> tasks and LaTeX batch processing (instead of Scientific Word or
> even -- gasp! -- MS Word for that matter).
> 
> And I'd be curious enough to ask whether gay folks -- and there
> are seemingly even more of those than dedicated pagans -- should
> deserve their gay Ubuntu even before these do... there are lots
> of diseases, and priding them isn't productive.

> > i'm not saying that pagans don't use linux just that i think
> > they would appriciate that they have something that they can
> > call there own.....
> 
> Why, they can call their madness their own.  Although it's not
> theirs, just the wrong choice made is.
> 
> > sorta like ubuntu is "linux for humans" this distro could be "
> > linux for pagans" and becuase it's open source it woulden't
> > violate any EULA like tweaking microsoft can do..
> 
> Irrelevant.
> 
> PS: speaking for myself... not our company, country, or Linux team.
> But being honest, I could only write what I wrote.  Maybe Mark
> will find that idea (or both, including Gaybuntu) just OK.
> 
> --
>  ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike at altlinux.ru>
>   ------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/


You better hope so (speaking for myself... not our company, country,
or Linux team). I know lots of upstanding, tolerant Ukranians and/or
Russians and you are *definitely* giving them a bad name, merely by
writing what you did and including .ru and .ua in your e-mail.

I find religion utterly repugnant, and Christian religion in
particular because it is the dominant one where I live, but that still
doesn't make it right to hold pre-conceived notions BECAUSE someone
belongs to a religion. (religious bigotry is the only form of bigotry
I've experienced in my life as a white anglo-saxon living in a white
anglo-saxon dominated country). Religion is the Last Remaining
Retreat(tm) of the bigot and I certainly advocate for severe
curtailment on its effects on society and the revoking of their
tax-free charity status (if religion is so good then it should be able
to stand on its own two feet and not be subsidised by ME through my
taxes) (and, judging by the fact that people are both abandoning
religion and advocating for removal of religion from public life
society is evolving beyond its pagan roots... the Christian religion
is rooted in the pagan. Their two biggest holidays are 100% pagan
(tm), Christmas, Easter ;-) (which, I love pointing out to my Catholic
friends who cringe in feigned horror b/c they recognise the hypocrisy
of using pagan as a slur whilst celebrating pagan holidays (of course,
I've met a lot of devout atheist Catholics over the years who don't
actually believe ;-).

Anyway, despite my opinion on the state of the mental health of many
religious people (Christian and non-Xian), I do *not* in any way,
shape or form advocate that religion be suppressed. Both for practical
reasons (suppression results in interest and radicalism), but also,
(and more importantly) for ethical reasons. Freedom of conscience is
one of the most fundamental rights that humans can lay claim to, and,
although freedom of religion is a farce in and of itself and results
in much strife and inequity, freedom of conscience is not!

Anyway, to finish off, Michael Shigorin, in all my years on e-mail
lists (including one off-topic list where inter-anti-religious
discussions could get quite heated) I cannot remember a post as
ill-informed and vile as yours.

In one e-mail you manage to hurl both anti-gay slurs and make some
pretty vile comments regarding pagans.

I sincerely hope that your compatriots do not hold your opinions, or,
merely that you misspoke.

I'm not that familiar with the level of bigotry that's still tolerated
in Russia, Ukraine and other east European countries, but, I lament
that it's probably higher than it should be. Russia used to be known
as a bastion of anti-black, anti-Jewish sentiment and I would be
surprised if such sentiments disappeared over-night (though, I don't
see any of that sort of behaviour in my Russian, Ukrainian and other
eastern European friends here in Canada).

Anyway, I think you owe both Emil and the Ubuntu community in general
an apology. Bigotry cannot be tolerated anywhere in life, and you
certainly need to re-read what you wrote and (a) separate fact from
fiction and (b) think through what your comments said.

In particular, take the time to learn about what it is you are
criticising. For e.g. HIV/AIDS (or Aids as the Brits write it) is NO
LONGER called GRIDS because it is now recognised than many more
straight people are infected with the disease than gay people!!!
Anyway, perhaps you  might benefit from actually meeting a gay person
and realising that they are no less human than your brother or father
or yourself.

Sincerely, Eric.