Ubuntu is not being attacked

[Tristan Wibberley]

Paul O'Malley wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I really thought that some other thread was a little misguided so I
> thought I would post this little ditty here.
> 
> (1) I got fed up reading some other thread.
> (2) Should you require an MTA in YOUR distro from the off you have many
> choices ;-)

I don't think it was a thread about whether a given person wants an MTA
by default or not (although I don't remember if that's how it started),
but rather whether Ubuntu is a lesser system for the lack of it, and
whether "normal" users (whatever they are) are harmed by that. When
trying to make Ubuntu the best damned distro out there, one doesn't say
"Ubuntu has a misfeature, abandon Ubuntu for SuSE" or something like
that, one should say "Ubuntu has a misfeature, lets fix it". There is a
notification misfeature at the moment, that much is clear - ie, in many
cases it doesn't happen - and I think there is also a local messaging
misfeature too (I think users should be able to leave messages for each
other right off the bat). An MTA (like postfix) can form a part of the
possible solutions to those misfeatures.

> (A) first proviso, once installed if you have the 20 or so seconds it
> takes to type
>>>>sudo apt-get install postfix<<<
> Then Ubuntu in its current config will do you nicely

But only if you are an experienced debian/ubuntu user, all those others
that don't want to/can't be sysadmins don't know how to do this step and
have no reasonable way to find out how to do it. If you don't have the
MTA there (or a really easy way to install it from whatever dialog you
are likely to be on when the question of notification/messaging comes
up), most people are stuck with a feature-sparse system.

> (B) second proviso, if you can't wait that long what exactly are you
> doing and why does your "deployment box" not have the MTA there already?

What does a "deployment" box have to do with home users? I don't think
anybody thinks the lack of an MTA by default is a problem for businesses
- since their systems will almost always be configured by experts. It is
the home user that can't easily go from "receive notifications about
problems that I have no idea what to do about them" to "have the
notifications go to someone that can do something about it". It is the
needs of that user that have to be considered wrt to the "MTA by
default" question.


> Really I can't see a problem.
> 
> If you need it you most likely have the skills

I don't agree with that at all. If you need to configure an SMTP
smarthost, yeah, sure. But if you want notification of problems to be
configurable and have local messaging, and have a system that uses only
a few mechanisms so it is more reliable and flexible, then, IMHO, you
need it and may very well *not* have the skills. It is also a feature
that I would expect to be available even if I didn't know how to set it up.

> , if you don't .........
> [too many options chat.freenode.net #unbuntu being one of them]
> If you need a server grade Ubuntu there is the Server install and you
> can choose mail and or lots of other sweeties there.
> 
> It is a bit like the sudo argument, a fait accompli, and perchance pro
> bono publico.

Isn't this an English language mailing list? I have no idea what that
means :/

===========================

I would like to move this discussion to be based around the types of
user, what they want to acheive and what they are capable of,
technically. Then find the software that can be used in as many of those
cases as possible. I believe that an MTA is just that and so I am
currently on that side of the discussion.

Here are the users I think would benefit from having an MTA installed by
default (if it is automatically configured, and clients configured for
them).

You can see here the major feature that I think is missing from the
default install ;)

developed countries
===================

smarthost admins	- flexible, fast relaying MTA
mailbox server admins	- flexible, fast maildir supporting MTA
custom scripted systems - /sbin/sendmail and scriptish MUA
older families		- local messaging, both private and discussion
			    boards
			- redirecting notifications to friends or
			    distant family members
student houses/landings
  /apartments		- local messaging, both private and discussion
			    boards
			- redirecting notifications to students over
			    the other side of the city
charitable organisations- local messaging, both private and discussion
			    boards
			- redirecting notifications to a volunteer's
			    home PC, volunteer may not be an expert
			    or ill located so this should be easy to
			    set up.

developing countries
====================

smarthost admins	- flexible, fast relaying MTA
mailbox server admins	- flexible, fast maildir supporting MTA
custom scripted systems - /sbin/sendmail and scriptish MUA
schools			- local messaging, both private and discussion
			    boards
			- redirections can be configured by
			    expert if necessary, but expert may not
			    have ready transport to remote areas.
communities		- local messaging, both private and discussion
			    boards
			- redirections can be configured by
			    expert from nearest LUG if necessary, but
			    LUG may be too far.

Only the smarthost and mailbox server admins can be expected to have the
necessary skills and experience to install and configure an MTA.

If anybody has alternatives for these uses, please reply, also add any
other uses that would benefit from your alternatives to the MTA to
support their use instead of an MTA. Or say if you think these uses are
not important enough to work in the default install.

-- 
Tristan Wibberley