menus, fullscreens, and focii

Michael Shigorin mike at
Tue Dec 20 10:59:02 GMT 2005

On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 11:02:58AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> | > | Unfortunately, that forces one to go to the single application
> | > | paradigm, and, sometimes you lose the menu bar (which is Ok for
> | > | basic web browsing or word processing but not for real work).
> | Again, I think we're thinking different things.
> Apparently.  You are thinking ??removing the menu bar?? implies
> ??full-screen mode??.  In the apps where I care, I can turn off
> the menu bar without going into a full-screen mode.

Actually Eric seems to be telling the opposite, that there's a
*need* for somewhat more persistent menu bar even in fullscreen 
or the likes.  Not about "removing menu bar [to save earth]".

> | When I go full-screen with Windows/Linux, often-times I lose the menu
> | bar. This makes an app less functional. All important functionality
> | should be accessible within one or two mouse clicks. Users shouldn't
> | have to use the keyboard, except to enter text (not to issue
> | commands).
> They shouldn't have to, but they should be able to.

It's more about productivity, not accessibility to me.

> Not having keyboard shortcuts for common tasks is a major pain
> and it's a lot harder to actually hit a small icon or a menu
> than hitting the right keys on the keyboard.

Yeah, but shortcuts are less discoverable. (see, I'm learning
these words ;)

> Even though Jeff's mum might not want keyboard shortcuts
> particularly much, my mum does. :-)

My mom too (GIMP ones) :-)

 ---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <mike at>
  ------ Linux.Kiev

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