lubuntu and the issue of norms by

Jared Norris jrnorris at
Thu Jun 14 20:14:05 UTC 2012

On 14 June 2012 22:50, spir <denis.spir at> wrote:
> Hello,
> [1] is an organism for "open source / open discussion
> software projects working on interoperability and shared technology for X
> Window System desktops"; in other words, they try to define norms on how
> every bit of desktops works (at the interface level), so that software tools
> & comonents developped for one can be used in others, or better that tools
> can be directly designed to work for a whole range of desktops.
> is not an official organism, thus its norms do not have the
> status of standards. Nevertheless, and it's the whole point, such norms act
> or can act as de facto standards that some or even all desktop or desktop
> components may have to follow, if ever they are to be used. An independently
> designed desktop or component, however good it is, may end up beeing
> unusuable for a lack of tools developped for it or a lack for
> interoperability with existing tools; also, users used to some kinds of
> interfaces may not jump to a different one because of its apparent weirdness
> or the cost of learning new practices. Software is inherently monopolistic
> for such reasons (we all know that, they probably are the main reasons why
> Windows is still by far the most used OS).

I think you've got it all around the wrong way. Freedesktop isn't just
"not official" enough to not create standards, they openly say they
are not about making standards but just want to be a place where
people can talk about ideas. From their front page:

"Standards is not a formal standards organization, though some
see a need for one that covers some of the areas we are working on.
For Linux operating system standards, look at the Linux Standard Base
project. The X.Org Foundation and the IETF are other groups that do
formal standards. The Free Standards Group is one group that publishes
"de jure" standards for free software; is loosely
affiliated with the FSG.

Unlike a standards organization, is a "collaboration
zone" where ideas and code are tossed around, and de facto
specifications are encouraged. The primary entry to these discussions
is the xdg mailing list."

So to me, the rest of your email is moot. I cannot see any downside to
anyone having a conversation there in the interests of collaboration
and making things easier. Why would you set up a competing
organisation to one that's already there with it's only goal to be to
get people to collaborate?

> Denis
> [1]
> [2) I have lost the pointer, but amjjiwad may give it as he took part to the
> thread, if I remember well.
> [3]
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I just want to point out that I'm not associated with freedesktop at
all, but I honestly don't recall the thread mentioned on this list as
[2] above so went to look at it myself before I jumped to conclusions.
Please, if you're trying to back your argument with a reference,
writing "I've lost it" really doesn't help your argument.


Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych)

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