[OT rude or not, a different opinion] -Re: Beta 8.10 released

[Emanoil Kotsev]

Hello, thanks for discussing all of this

--- On Fri, 10/10/08, David McGlone <d.mcglone at att.net> wrote:

> From: David McGlone <d.mcglone at att.net>
> Subject: Re: [OT rude or not, a different opinion] -Re: Beta 8.10 released
> To: "Kubuntu Help and User Discussions" <kubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 7:50 PM
> On Friday 10 October 2008 10:58:01 am Thorny wrote:
> > On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:19:20 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev
> wrote:
> > > I accept your arguments and will pay more
> attention in future. IT was
> > > not ment to be _that_ rude as you or someone else
> might understood it.
> >
> > Just to interject an opinion which appears to be
> counter to what you have
> > been getting.
> >
> > I am an English as first language speaker. I did not
> interpret what you
> > said (wrote) as rude and, in my view, certainly not
> any ruder than some of
> > the things that were replied to you. If you asked me
> if I got the point, I
> > would have answered in the affirmative or asked for
> clarification but it
> > is easy for me to say that since I wasn't part of
> the discussion. I think,
> > did you get the point, should mean, did you get the
> point?
> >
> > I believe that in newsgroups (and lists and forums)
> everyone should try
> > very hard to understand what the poster is meaning by
> paying careful
> > attention to the context and try very hard to keep
> their own
> > preconceptions and emotions out of things. Similar to
> the way we ignore
> > spelling errors or differences. I know that it is
> easier to write that
> > advice than it is to follow it. Since many of us are
> here to help or get
> > help with technical issues, the most productive
> suggestion is to leave
> > ones ego out of ones reading and replying. The
> Internet is littered with
> > online arguments that can be traced back to hurt
> feelings or
> > misconceptions and nobody ever really
> "wins", although often the most
> > aggressive poster drives others away. Go to a
> newsgroup that is frequented
> > by trolls if examples are necessary. ...or, a
> developers list just
> > previous to a vote.
> >
> > It's certainly true that many of the brightest
> troubleshooting minds are
> > not the best at social conversation and often
> don't take well to
> > disagreement and/or respond to argument curtly. There
> are very bright
> > people who can't read emotion
> "between-the-lines" and certainly also those
> > who see emotion which isn't there. I think
> it's correct that it's partly
> > cultural. Also situational, think how differently we
> perceive things if we
> > are personally angry or afraid at the moment.
> >
> > Just to be clear, I apologise if I sound patronising,
> I'm as susceptible
> > to arguments as anyone else. I've been around a
> long time and none of this
> > is new. As far as I'm concerned, if you use the
> English words correctly
> > (as per the dictionary definition) we English speakers
> should not take you
> > to task because we see something else in it,
> especially when we recognise
> > that you are not a native English speaker. In my
> opinion, one needs the
> > intention to be rude in order to be rude and it did
> not appear to me that
> > you intended that, what it looked (sounded/read) like
> to me was
> > frustration.
> >
> > It seems to me that you managed to get what you wanted
> out of the posts
> > regardless of misunderstandings, and we all had the
> benefit of the
> > discussion to be exposed to others ideas and
> opinions...that's the point
> > that matters.
> 
> I agree. I also want to add that sometimes it is very hard
> to identify how a 
> person is trying to explain things in an E-Mail, because we
> cannot observe 
> the posters actions, tone of voice, appearance and so on.
> 
> I also believe it depends on the individual, some think the
> way something is 
> said is rude whereareas, others don't. I personally
> slightly think "did you 
> get the point?" is rude in some situations because it
> suggests your listener 
> is dumb. I prefer to ask the question "did I explain
> that good?" or something 
> like "did that help?". So in the event they
> didn't understand what I was 
> trying to explain I'll take the blame for not
> explaining it to the best of my 
> abilities rather than suggest they are dumb or stupid.
> 

I am glad to hear that some people do not get affected by what I said and how I said it and are trying to understand the meaning in fact though it was intended to suggest that the person should read once again what I was trying to say about kde3 especially not presuming that I do not have a clear motivation behind.
If you tend to make false presumptions it's most probably that you're on the way getting dumb. If you are not sure or don't know why I say something you should ask.
There is always a distortion between intention and understanding intentions.

So I can not say that I was thinking a person was dumb or anything like this, but that this person made a false presumption not trying to understand why something is being said by me, not even asking why I say it.

I should also agree that in this context it might be interpreted as rude, but only if people are "sick of fake political correctness" or "fake politness" (as I said). In fact it depends (I think/my personal opinion) that people with different social background are getting more or less affected by what I say. So as I said the truth is somehwere in the middle.

And by writing this I mean that those people should learn, that there is something else than the shine world in the west and when things change they will get confronted by more rude and eveil things then a question like "did you get the point?"

In fact all of this is very helpful to me

thanks for all of your opinions

regards