[OT rude or not, a different opinion] -Re: Beta 8.10 released

[David McGlone]

On Friday 10 October 2008 10:58:01 am Thorny wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:19:20 -0700, Emanoil Kotsev wrote:
> > I accept your arguments and will pay more attention in future. IT was
> > not ment to be _that_ rude as you or someone else might understood it.
>
> Just to interject an opinion which appears to be counter to what you have
> been getting.
>
> I am an English as first language speaker. I did not interpret what you
> said (wrote) as rude and, in my view, certainly not any ruder than some of
> the things that were replied to you. If you asked me if I got the point, I
> would have answered in the affirmative or asked for clarification but it
> is easy for me to say that since I wasn't part of the discussion. I think,
> did you get the point, should mean, did you get the point?
>
> I believe that in newsgroups (and lists and forums) everyone should try
> very hard to understand what the poster is meaning by paying careful
> attention to the context and try very hard to keep their own
> preconceptions and emotions out of things. Similar to the way we ignore
> spelling errors or differences. I know that it is easier to write that
> advice than it is to follow it. Since many of us are here to help or get
> help with technical issues, the most productive suggestion is to leave
> ones ego out of ones reading and replying. The Internet is littered with
> online arguments that can be traced back to hurt feelings or
> misconceptions and nobody ever really "wins", although often the most
> aggressive poster drives others away. Go to a newsgroup that is frequented
> by trolls if examples are necessary. ...or, a developers list just
> previous to a vote.
>
> It's certainly true that many of the brightest troubleshooting minds are
> not the best at social conversation and often don't take well to
> disagreement and/or respond to argument curtly. There are very bright
> people who can't read emotion "between-the-lines" and certainly also those
> who see emotion which isn't there. I think it's correct that it's partly
> cultural. Also situational, think how differently we perceive things if we
> are personally angry or afraid at the moment.
>
> Just to be clear, I apologise if I sound patronising, I'm as susceptible
> to arguments as anyone else. I've been around a long time and none of this
> is new. As far as I'm concerned, if you use the English words correctly
> (as per the dictionary definition) we English speakers should not take you
> to task because we see something else in it, especially when we recognise
> that you are not a native English speaker. In my opinion, one needs the
> intention to be rude in order to be rude and it did not appear to me that
> you intended that, what it looked (sounded/read) like to me was
> frustration.
>
> It seems to me that you managed to get what you wanted out of the posts
> regardless of misunderstandings, and we all had the benefit of the
> discussion to be exposed to others ideas and opinions...that's the point
> that matters.

I agree. I also want to add that sometimes it is very hard to identify how a 
person is trying to explain things in an E-Mail, because we cannot observe 
the posters actions, tone of voice, appearance and so on.

I also believe it depends on the individual, some think the way something is 
said is rude whereareas, others don't. I personally slightly think "did you 
get the point?" is rude in some situations because it suggests your listener 
is dumb. I prefer to ask the question "did I explain that good?" or something 
like "did that help?". So in the event they didn't understand what I was 
trying to explain I'll take the blame for not explaining it to the best of my 
abilities rather than suggest they are dumb or stupid.

David M.