Beta 8.10 released

[Steve Lamb]

Graham Todd wrote:
> I can believe that many of the points you raise have not been
> addressed, but without changing your distribution to something like
> Debian, they will never be addressed until a volunteer somewhere can
> devote time to do it.  People making remarks such as "I do not want to
> be a beta tester" lose sight of what kind of an operating system Linux
> really is: new developments are put out for us to try and make better,
> so in a sense if you want to use Linux you ARE going to be a beta
> tester.

    And this is the problem.  Again, this has been rebutted, by me, days ago.

    Just read a few URLs for me, ok?

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/desktopedition

    Tell me where in there it says we're "ARE going to be a beta tester."  I'm
curious since the word beta does not appear on any of those pages.  However
phrases like "ready-to-use" and "just works" do appear.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/1998/10/msg00077.html

    Notice the distribution, the from and the date and consider what you're
telling me to do quoted above.  If I wanted to do testing and development work
I would still be running Debian on my (now 3) machines onto which I've
installed KUbuntu.  I am on KUbuntu because I got really tired of having to
fight with my display drivers to get 3D working.  Tired of fighting with X to
get a display at all working.  Tired of things not working.  However Debian
would be the only choice for my servers.  It still is, in fact, on the two I
maintain.

    So, now to put a blunt point on it.  I am  KUbuntu user who has stated
here he's personally happy to use 4.1.1 on two of his machines, who has 10
years of experience in Debian, who is pointing out that in spite of his
personal experience in bugs, software design and long-standing experience in
Linux that the current move to KDE 4.x by KUbuntu is wrong.  You are telling
that person that, in spite of the word "beta" nor "testing" anywhere on the
main public pages of the Ubuntu project he should expect beta testing as the
mere price of running Linux and if he really, really wants to improve
things... to go to Debian?

    I hope you will consider how that sounds.  I know you didn't know my
history with Linux.  I don't like bringing it up since most people take it as
a dick-waving contest.  But honestly, of all the presumptions people are
making about my stance being inexperienced, unwilling to test and unwilling to
try KDE4 are the furthest from the truth.  Unfortunately when that is
understood you see that most of the pat answers that people give fall flat.