Regrettably, Win 98SE for a while yet

[Derek Broughton]

On Tuesday 17 May 2005 20:09, Efwkub at aol.com wrote:
>
> Try to open KUser, it won't - nothing appears

When that happens (in any program) it's best to try running it from an x-term 
(eg, konsole) which will likely tell you exactly why.

> I set a root password

Please don't do that.  Ubuntu isn't intended to have one, and you're just 
opening yourself to the following confusion:

> Open KUser and I am invited to run as root
> Enter my root password, but am told this is incorrect.
> So enter the first user's password, and this works

Of course.  Kubuntu doesn't have a root password, and has modified kdesu to 
work like gksu and sudo, and ask for _your_ password not root's (there was a 
time when the actual prompt said to enter "root's" password, so you could be 
running this version - I'm pretty sure the official Hoary release fixed 
this).

> Delete the first user

Totally bypassing the intent of creating a superuser not known as 'root'.

> Add a couple of ordinary users
> Close KUser
> Alt + F2 and try for konsole: "KDEInit could not launch 'konsole'
> ditto for konqueror
> Use mouse on Kicker then Help. Get bouncing icon, after a time this stops,
> no Help

Aren't you already logged in as the user you just deleted?  Do you expect to 
be able to do anything now?  Feedback could be better, but I've worked with 
at least a dozen different operating systems over the years, and I don't 
recall any that had reasonably predictable behaviour after you deleted the 
user from which you were logged in.

> (Coming from the Windows world... ) Perhaps a re-boot may help...
> Do this, and the Log on box shows the name of the first user, who was
> supposedly deleted

KDM is set to show the last logged-in user.  That can be changed.  It's still 
right.  

> First user's password doesn't get me anywhere

Of course.  Since you deleted him...

> So I try one of the ordinary users, and progress, but am shown a warning
> that includes
> "Informational - arlsmessage...  ...Error while initialising the sound
> driver..."

Normal.  Most users aren't added to the appropriate group for sound (I keep 
meaning to check what that is and _make_ it a default).

> OK I've broken it and I'm to blame, I take responsibility, I knew I was
> pushing my luck, I planned to reload it, I wanted to see if I could have a
> "standard" setup with root, and ordinary users

You can, but you're twisting Ubuntu into a mode it wasn't intended to use, and 
you're even doing that wrong, so you get what you expect.

> I am optimistic that the laptop will work (quite / ) well when I reload it.
> And when I do I will set a root password but leave the first user alone.

Why????  I just don't understand this need - especially from Windows users who 
have never had a 'root' in the first place - to twist Ubuntu's intent.  There 
is exactly one reason why you might _need_ a root password, and I have yet to 
see anybody mention it.
>
> Perhaps consideration should be given to:
>
> 1.  If deleting the first user will cause damage let alone kill the system
> perhaps KUser should warn us first

It probably should - I don't believe it would let you delete "root", and so it 
shouldn't let you delete the only user that can perform root functions.  File 
a bug report.
>
> 2.  If KUser shows that a user has been deleted then as it is relevant re
> security, shouldn't that user have been well and truly deleted?
> (The first user's name was there after the re-start)

It _was_ "well and truly deleted", and I don't see any problem there.
>
> 3.  And, perhaps, a less ambiguous message in KUser than "run as root"
> though fair enough we are encouraged just to "sudo"

Suggestions?  In the XP world (if it's even possible) it would be "run as 
administrator", but that wouldn't clarify anything for unix users.  In any 
case, I don't consider that the "message". It's the window title, and in 
either KDE or Windows I don't pay much attention to window titles.  Perhaps 
I'm unusual.  The prompt message is "Enter your password" (on the current, 
Breezy, version), which is pretty unambiguous.
>
> (Any unix purists scoffing at the concept of making Linux idiot-proof
> please remember this was in a KDE application a graphical environment for
> us inadequates who can't yet use a command line for everything)

I would at least hope we won't find any of those here.  I'm pretty sure that 
type of unix purist doesn't install KDE :-)
>
> Thanks again to all those who have done so much work to get to where we are

Yeah, from me too.  It can't be said too often :-)
-- 
derek