first time user

[AG Alex]

Il 01/02/2013 09:48, kubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com ha scritto:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Re: fisrt time user experience (AG Alex)
>     2. Re: fisrt time user experience (Tres Finocchiaro)
>     3. Re: tablets request (Tres Finocchiaro)
>     4. Re: fisrt time user experience (Ovidiu-Florin Bogdan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 09:15:58 -0600
> From: AG Alex <alex at alexgrafic.it>
> To: kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: fisrt time user experience
> Message-ID: <510BDC2E.6030003 at alexgrafic.it>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Il 01/02/2013 06:00, kubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com ha scritto:
>> Send kubuntu-devel mailing list submissions to
>> 	kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	kubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	kubuntu-devel-owner at lists.ubuntu.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of kubuntu-devel digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>      1. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Rohan Garg)
>>      2. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Nowardev-Team)
>>      3. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Rohan Garg)
>>      4. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Volkan Gezer)
>>      5. Re: tablets request (Jussi Schultink)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 13:48:42 +0530
>> From: Rohan Garg <rohangarg at kubuntu.org>
>> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CAEb1ZdhCuox9Kih9Z=ktyUuwi9NZ5YoDC4ZQdMj0bX0mN7eV3Q at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>>> Personally I wouldn't do that. If a user is smart enough for wanting another
>>> browser, he should be able to go and install it himself.
>>>
>>> Maybe here the problem is that Kubuntu is not advertising the software
>>> centers properly.
>>>   From my side, if there's anything we can do to improve this situation from
>>> Muon, I think it would be a huge step forward, and not only for browsers,
>>> but other areas could benefit from such deals. Maybe rekonq can provide a
>>> list of alternatives and use muon to install them? Afterall, chromium
>>> already suggests you other browsers, IIRC.
>>>
>> I am not sure whether or not chromium suggests other browsers, but I
>> agree that Muon itself needs more exposure, which is why we should :
>>
>> a) Put it as one of the apps under Favorites
>> b) Update the feature tour on kubuntu.org to showcase Muon as the
>> preferred way to install things.
>>
>>> Additionally, you didn't mention in the Con's that it means to add GTK
>>> dependencies, which I'm fine with by the way, but AFAIK right now ubuntu
>>> forked the kde-gtk-config package to not need GTK.
>>>
>> You seem to have misunderstood me, I'll repeat again, I was not
>> proposing to put Firefox on the Live Media itself. Instead, I was
>> proposing to have a page in the installer that allows a user to choose
>> betweek Firefox/Chromium/Rekonq, with Firefox/Chromium being
>> downloaded during the install phase.
>>
>>> Aleix
>>>
>>> --
>>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:25:31 +0100
>> From: Nowardev-Team <nowardev at gmail.com>
>> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CAL6cU-1rDV7fFj=_ZyNBYPJGg5GtX+1gokqxj4qFiopSTguzYQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> 2013/2/1 Rick Timmis <rick.timmis at abazander.com>
>>
>>> My take is as follows
>>>
>>> I believe we should look to keep things simple and unified. Kubuntu has
>>> set out its stall as a default KDE experience, it should stick with that.
>>>
>>> encouraging more users to "Try Out" Rekonq, grows the users and testing
>>> community, and provides the potential for greater feedback, and increased
>>> development for the upstream project. This is true for the whole KDE
>>> package set.
>>>
>>
>> if you go here http://www.kubuntu.org/ you will read
>>
>> Kubuntu, making your PC friendly
>>
>> and if you know what is ubuntu you should understand that ubuntu is NOT a
>> distro for testing software
>> it's linux made simple for end-user. you wanna support rekonq well make an
>> icon that will install rekonq instead here we got the opposite.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I do not like the idea, of adding questions to the installer, in fact I
>>> feel that it would be better to remove questions, ask less, assume more.
>>> Whilst our technically savvy users may not appreciate this, think about the
>>> broader audience.
>>>
>>> We're are trying to persuade Sally Smith, who bought her Laptop from a
>>> local retail store, all fully loaded with all sorts of software. All she
>>> had to do was switch it on and give it a user name and set her password.
>>>
>>> That's what we're competing with, so we must try to recreate that user
>>> experience in our own way.
>>>
>>> However, you make an excellent point about users not knowing about
>>> Software Centre, but perhaps this could be better served with some
>>> explanatory information that is presented as the installer takes care of
>>> business
>>>
>>> ATB
>>>
>>> Rick Timmis
>>>
>> if you do a good installer the first things will be
>>
>> * the partition stuff
>> *software to install
>>
>> *keyboard language and user password stuff
>>
>> then the computer can do all the installation by itself wihout user actions
>>
>> so adding a question is good , users are not stupid i think a more question
>> will not kill them expecially if they want install linux that is not a
>> ultra easy task.
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 13:55:35 +0530
>> From: Rohan Garg <rohangarg at kubuntu.org>
>> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CAEb1ZdhtdV7pJ5m+mZG5gEzq+3jW0mh5owbYqB5ubyg=2N8UuQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Sounds like a great idea (again! :D)
>>
>> Anyone awesome at HTML? You can find the slideshow sources here :
>> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/files/head:/slideshows/kubuntu/slides/
>>
>> Would be nice to have some mockups for the next release so that we can
>> switch before UI freeze.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:08 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 31, 2013 08:36:59 PM Aleix Pol wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Rohan Garg <rohangarg at kubuntu.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone
>>>>> Since the default browser seems to be a fairly hot topic in Kubuntu
>>>>> I'd like to propose the following :
>>>>>
>>>>> * Keep rekonq as the default browser
>>>>> * Add a new browser selection page in Ubiquity right after the
>>>>> "Prepare" page which allows the user to pick one of the the 3
>>>>> available choices Firefox/Chromium/Rekonq ( rekonq selected by default
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> Pro's : People don't complain (loudly) about our browser selection
>>>>>
>>>>>              For people trying out Kubuntu for the first time who know
>>>>>
>>>>> nothing about packages and how to install software, it gives them an
>>>>> easy way to choose a more feature complete browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> Con's : Adds another step in the installer
>>>>>
>>>>> While some people might argue that users might not be able to choose
>>>>> one over the other, this will not hold true for most of the users
>>>>> since we can safely assume that they have used/heard about either one
>>>>> of the browsers in the past and already have a preference.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also heard some issues being raised about chromium not having a
>>>>> security cycle in tune with our release cycle, but it seems that
>>>>> Lubuntu ships Chromium as their default browser.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Rohan Garg
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>>>>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>>>> Personally I wouldn't do that. If a user is smart enough for wanting
>>>> another browser, he should be able to go and install it himself.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe here the problem is that Kubuntu is not advertising the software
>>>> centers properly.
>>>>   From my side, if there's anything we can do to improve this situation from
>>>> Muon, I think it would be a huge step forward, and not only for browsers,
>>>> but other areas could benefit from such deals. Maybe rekonq can provide a
>>>> list of alternatives and use muon to install them? Afterall, chromium
>>>> already suggests you other browsers, IIRC.
>>>>
>>>> Additionally, you didn't mention in the Con's that it means to add GTK
>>>> dependencies, which I'm fine with by the way, but AFAIK right now ubuntu
>>>> forked the kde-gtk-config package to not need GTK.
>>> I think it would be good to have a slide for "here's how you get more stuff"
>>> and possibly "Here's how you get a different web browser" in the feature tour
>>> the runs during the installation.  The content of the slide show hasn't
>>> changed in awhile and I think this would be a good improvement.
>>>
>>> That'd be a way to introduce the idea of package management and our tools for
>>> getting/updating packaging.
>>>
>>> Scott K
>>>
>>> --
>>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:05:19 +0100
>> From: Volkan Gezer <volkangezer at gmail.com>
>> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CALxMG16a26DxvZK=BkuBdsKqxGjCPADC0rDUUAyYFNv4qZno5A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> En ?yi Dileklerimle,
>> Volkan GEZER
>> volkangezer at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/1 Nowardev-Team <nowardev at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> 2013/2/1 Rick Timmis <rick.timmis at abazander.com>
>>>> My take is as follows
>>>>
>>>> I believe we should look to keep things simple and unified. Kubuntu has
>>>> set out its stall as a default KDE experience, it should stick with that.
>>>>
>>>> encouraging more users to "Try Out" Rekonq, grows the users and testing
>>>> community, and provides the potential for greater feedback, and increased
>>>> development for the upstream project. This is true for the whole KDE
>>>> package set.
>>>
>>>
>>> if you go here http://www.kubuntu.org/ you will read
>>>
>>> Kubuntu, making your PC friendly
>>>
>>>
>>> and if you know what is ubuntu you should understand that ubuntu is NOT a
>>> distro for testing software
>>> it's linux made simple for end-user. you wanna support rekonq well make an
>>> icon that will install rekonq instead here we got the opposite.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I do not like the idea, of adding questions to the installer, in fact I
>>>> feel that it would be better to remove questions, ask less, assume more.
>>>> Whilst our technically savvy users may not appreciate this, think about
>>>> the
>>>> broader audience.
>>>>
>>>> We're are trying to persuade Sally Smith, who bought her Laptop from a
>>>> local retail store, all fully loaded with all sorts of software. All she
>>>> had to do was switch it on and give it a user name and set her password.
>>>>
>>>> That's what we're competing with, so we must try to recreate that user
>>>> experience in our own way.
>>>>
>>>> However, you make an excellent point about users not knowing about
>>>> Software Centre, but perhaps this could be better served with some
>>>> explanatory information that is presented as the installer takes care of
>>>> business
>>>>
>>>> ATB
>>>>
>>>> Rick Timmis
>>> if you do a good installer the first things will be
>>>
>>> * the partition stuff
>>> *software to install
>>>
>> I am also aggree with this.
>> Before there was a saying about choosing between minimal installation
>> or custom installation. When it is custom, can users pick their
>> favourite softwares before installation? For example in openSUSE they
>> allow everything to be chosen before installation (maybe with yast ,
>> but I dont know). So basics program installations can be selected. If
>> user selects these programs,  then these may be added to their
>> Favourite tab in Kickoff.
>>
>>> *keyboard language and user password stuff
>>>
>>> then the computer can do all the installation by itself wihout user actions
>>>
>>> so adding a question is good , users are not stupid i think a more question
>>> will not kill them expecially if they want install linux that is not a ultra
>>> easy task.
>>> --
>>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:30:47 +0200
>> From: Jussi Schultink <jussi01 at ubuntu.com>
>> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Subject: Re: tablets request
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CALtuJ=+YTjn2ZqSPU_bmDqYzeO7EGui+KFxgXiXqg5-uRQ5ARw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Sounds fine to me. Check with Aureliens contact, but if it doesn't work
>> out, I have no issues with this.
>>
>> On a related subject, is there a list of transactions we have
>> done/accounting style thing that can be published?
>>
>> Jussi
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Aur?lien G?teau <agateau at kde.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Le Wednesday 30 January 2013 15:52:28 Jonathan Riddell a ?crit :
>>>> I've been playing around with a borrowed nexus 7 for a few days and
>>>> got kubuntu running on it.  It's kindae working except QML doesn't
>>>> seem to respond to anything (traditional widgets work fine) which is
>>>> quite a limitation.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway I'd like to request to the kubuntu council permission to buy a
>>>> nexus 7 and an archos G9 101 tablet to keep looking into this and get
>>>> kubuntu images made.  The cost on amazon.co.uk is ?373.52
>>> Have you tried to contact Matthias Welwarsky regarding Archos tablets?
>>> Maybe
>>> he can get you one at a cheaper price.
>>>
>>> Aur?lien
>>>
>>> --
>>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
> I cannot really understand guys , how a different slider is gonna help
> people to better understand kubuntu ...., I mean I installed a lot of
> systems , but I never saw actually what 's in the slider ...., I usually
> run the live, run the installation and then while waiting , I just
> reduce to icon and start to play around to show what kubuntu is about
> (and I usually suggest to do the same when they do without me )....., so
> I don't really see the point to put more info on slider .
> What a new user should do, take note about what slider is saying !?! :O
>
> Now let's talk about current user experience. Once I installed and
> restart the system, I cannot see how to access my file, I cannot see any
> launcher for daily use software, and the only thing I can see on default
> desktop , is this horrible empty plasmoid which usually I remove with my
> first click.
> Oh no wait, there are activities as well...., activities !?! Really do
> you think the only useful thing we can provide for new user is an access
> to activity !?! Not even experienced user are using it ....., what kind
> of impression do you think a new user will get opening activities empty
> selector (using the only extra button in the panel) !?!
>
> Like I said on my first post, I think we should change our target users,
> and Kubuntu first experience , should be where you understand the real
> potential of KDE + Ubuntu. Right now it looks like "....welcome to your
> empty desktop, now you know how to build it around your needs.....",
> which is fine for us , but for new user ... !?!
>
> I mean , I start to surf the web , and I will get  surely some problem
> with Rekonq, playing music with Amarok often it crashes or in many case
> it doesn't works properly, they cannot find anything they need and they
> don't knows nothing on how to add stuff and so on ...... The most
> probable reaction will be ".... well I cannot understand how people can
> be happy with it ....., I'll be back on my old system, so at least I
> know how to do things ...."
>
> Anyway, reading this mailing list I'm not sure anymore that the
> intention of this community is to give the best first experience we can
> provide to new users....., so I don't know if I will suggest to install
> kubuntu to people who ask me how to start with linux, because there are
> many other distr? much more user friendly and KDE friendly I would say
> (just because they try to shows it's power).
>
> But one day maybe Kubuntu as well be for newbbie who knows .....
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:40:55 -0500
> From: Tres Finocchiaro <fatbuttlarry at gmail.com>
> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: fisrt time user experience
> Message-ID:
> 	<CANQs7dCU7v-8fS_fzcJMLUXg0Gz_xWO+zWGzhvTbcP=6u7bntg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>>
>> I cannot really understand guys , how a different slider is gonna help
>> people to better understand kubuntu ....,
>
>
>> because there are many other distr? much more user friendly and KDE
>> friendly I would say (just because they try to shows it's power).
>> But one day maybe Kubuntu as well be for newbbie who knows .....
>
> Alex,
>
> Your feedback is spot-on in many ways, however I'm not sure it helps.
>
> It's much easier to propose change than to implement and support it.
>
> If there are elements of Kubuntu that you would like to improve, please
> improve on them, take screenshots, offer new configurations, study the
> default configuration and make specific proposals and then leverage the
> argument to improve.
>
> Simply stating that the default behavior is undesirable can do more damage
> to the community than actually help it.  The community needs more doers,
> not critics, and the current maintainers we have are working for free with
> little recognition or reward other than the rewards of being part of a
> great community project.
>
> -Tres
>
Well Tres, I already tried to purpose some idea to change, but I think 
that without intention to do it, I'm just wasting my time......, because 
I'm not a developer and I can't help with it.
Anyway , I really love Kubuntu and I'll keep using it, but for sure I 
will not suggest it to people who want approach linux for first time, 
just because I really want people to leave those horrible technology 
they are using , and Kubuntu isn't there to give them a simple way to do 
it, in my opinion.

Alex