fisrt time user experience

Fri Feb 1 15:15:58 UTC 2013

Il 01/02/2013 06:00, kubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com ha scritto:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Rohan Garg)
>     2. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Nowardev-Team)
>     3. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Rohan Garg)
>     4. Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity (Volkan Gezer)
>     5. Re: tablets request (Jussi Schultink)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 13:48:42 +0530
> From: Rohan Garg <rohangarg at kubuntu.org>
> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAEb1ZdhCuox9Kih9Z=ktyUuwi9NZ5YoDC4ZQdMj0bX0mN7eV3Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>> Personally I wouldn't do that. If a user is smart enough for wanting another
>> browser, he should be able to go and install it himself.
>>
>> Maybe here the problem is that Kubuntu is not advertising the software
>> centers properly.
>>  From my side, if there's anything we can do to improve this situation from
>> Muon, I think it would be a huge step forward, and not only for browsers,
>> but other areas could benefit from such deals. Maybe rekonq can provide a
>> list of alternatives and use muon to install them? Afterall, chromium
>> already suggests you other browsers, IIRC.
>>
> I am not sure whether or not chromium suggests other browsers, but I
> agree that Muon itself needs more exposure, which is why we should :
>
> a) Put it as one of the apps under Favorites
> b) Update the feature tour on kubuntu.org to showcase Muon as the
> preferred way to install things.
>
>> Additionally, you didn't mention in the Con's that it means to add GTK
>> dependencies, which I'm fine with by the way, but AFAIK right now ubuntu
>> forked the kde-gtk-config package to not need GTK.
>>
> You seem to have misunderstood me, I'll repeat again, I was not
> proposing to put Firefox on the Live Media itself. Instead, I was
> proposing to have a page in the installer that allows a user to choose
> betweek Firefox/Chromium/Rekonq, with Firefox/Chromium being
> downloaded during the install phase.
>
>> Aleix
>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:25:31 +0100
> From: Nowardev-Team <nowardev at gmail.com>
> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAL6cU-1rDV7fFj=_ZyNBYPJGg5GtX+1gokqxj4qFiopSTguzYQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> 2013/2/1 Rick Timmis <rick.timmis at abazander.com>
>
>> My take is as follows
>>
>> I believe we should look to keep things simple and unified. Kubuntu has
>> set out its stall as a default KDE experience, it should stick with that.
>>
>> encouraging more users to "Try Out" Rekonq, grows the users and testing
>> community, and provides the potential for greater feedback, and increased
>> development for the upstream project. This is true for the whole KDE
>> package set.
>>
>
>
> if you go here http://www.kubuntu.org/ you will read
>
> Kubuntu, making your PC friendly
>
> and if you know what is ubuntu you should understand that ubuntu is NOT a
> distro for testing software
> it's linux made simple for end-user. you wanna support rekonq well make an
> icon that will install rekonq instead here we got the opposite.
>
>
>
>
>> I do not like the idea, of adding questions to the installer, in fact I
>> feel that it would be better to remove questions, ask less, assume more.
>> Whilst our technically savvy users may not appreciate this, think about the
>> broader audience.
>>
>> We're are trying to persuade Sally Smith, who bought her Laptop from a
>> local retail store, all fully loaded with all sorts of software. All she
>> had to do was switch it on and give it a user name and set her password.
>>
>> That's what we're competing with, so we must try to recreate that user
>> experience in our own way.
>>
>> However, you make an excellent point about users not knowing about
>> Software Centre, but perhaps this could be better served with some
>> explanatory information that is presented as the installer takes care of
>> business
>>
>> ATB
>>
>> Rick Timmis
>>
> if you do a good installer the first things will be
>
> * the partition stuff
> *software to install
>
> *keyboard language and user password stuff
>
> then the computer can do all the installation by itself wihout user actions
>
> so adding a question is good , users are not stupid i think a more question
> will not kill them expecially if they want install linux that is not a
> ultra easy task.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 13:55:35 +0530
> From: Rohan Garg <rohangarg at kubuntu.org>
> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAEb1ZdhtdV7pJ5m+mZG5gEzq+3jW0mh5owbYqB5ubyg=2N8UuQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Sounds like a great idea (again! :D)
>
> Anyone awesome at HTML? You can find the slideshow sources here :
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/files/head:/slideshows/kubuntu/slides/
>
> Would be nice to have some mockups for the next release so that we can
> switch before UI freeze.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 3:08 AM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu at kitterman.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 31, 2013 08:36:59 PM Aleix Pol wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Rohan Garg <rohangarg at kubuntu.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone
>>>> Since the default browser seems to be a fairly hot topic in Kubuntu
>>>> I'd like to propose the following :
>>>>
>>>> * Keep rekonq as the default browser
>>>> * Add a new browser selection page in Ubiquity right after the
>>>> "Prepare" page which allows the user to pick one of the the 3
>>>> available choices Firefox/Chromium/Rekonq ( rekonq selected by default
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> Pro's : People don't complain (loudly) about our browser selection
>>>>
>>>>             For people trying out Kubuntu for the first time who know
>>>>
>>>> nothing about packages and how to install software, it gives them an
>>>> easy way to choose a more feature complete browser.
>>>>
>>>> Con's : Adds another step in the installer
>>>>
>>>> While some people might argue that users might not be able to choose
>>>> one over the other, this will not hold true for most of the users
>>>> since we can safely assume that they have used/heard about either one
>>>> of the browsers in the past and already have a preference.
>>>>
>>>> I've also heard some issues being raised about chromium not having a
>>>> security cycle in tune with our release cycle, but it seems that
>>>> Lubuntu ships Chromium as their default browser.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on this.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Rohan Garg
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>>>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
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>>> Personally I wouldn't do that. If a user is smart enough for wanting
>>> another browser, he should be able to go and install it himself.
>>>
>>> Maybe here the problem is that Kubuntu is not advertising the software
>>> centers properly.
>>>  From my side, if there's anything we can do to improve this situation from
>>> Muon, I think it would be a huge step forward, and not only for browsers,
>>> but other areas could benefit from such deals. Maybe rekonq can provide a
>>> list of alternatives and use muon to install them? Afterall, chromium
>>> already suggests you other browsers, IIRC.
>>>
>>> Additionally, you didn't mention in the Con's that it means to add GTK
>>> dependencies, which I'm fine with by the way, but AFAIK right now ubuntu
>>> forked the kde-gtk-config package to not need GTK.
>> I think it would be good to have a slide for "here's how you get more stuff"
>> and possibly "Here's how you get a different web browser" in the feature tour
>> the runs during the installation.  The content of the slide show hasn't
>> changed in awhile and I think this would be a good improvement.
>>
>> That'd be a way to introduce the idea of package management and our tools for
>> getting/updating packaging.
>>
>> Scott K
>>
>> --
>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:05:19 +0100
> From: Volkan Gezer <volkangezer at gmail.com>
> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Browser selection from Ubiquity
> Message-ID:
> 	<CALxMG16a26DxvZK=BkuBdsKqxGjCPADC0rDUUAyYFNv4qZno5A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> En ?yi Dileklerimle,
> Volkan GEZER
> volkangezer at gmail.com
>
>
> 2013/2/1 Nowardev-Team <nowardev at gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> 2013/2/1 Rick Timmis <rick.timmis at abazander.com>
>>> My take is as follows
>>>
>>> I believe we should look to keep things simple and unified. Kubuntu has
>>> set out its stall as a default KDE experience, it should stick with that.
>>>
>>> encouraging more users to "Try Out" Rekonq, grows the users and testing
>>> community, and provides the potential for greater feedback, and increased
>>> development for the upstream project. This is true for the whole KDE
>>> package set.
>>
>>
>>
>> if you go here http://www.kubuntu.org/ you will read
>>
>> Kubuntu, making your PC friendly
>>
>>
>> and if you know what is ubuntu you should understand that ubuntu is NOT a
>> distro for testing software
>> it's linux made simple for end-user. you wanna support rekonq well make an
>> icon that will install rekonq instead here we got the opposite.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I do not like the idea, of adding questions to the installer, in fact I
>>> feel that it would be better to remove questions, ask less, assume more.
>>> Whilst our technically savvy users may not appreciate this, think about
>>> the
>>> broader audience.
>>>
>>> We're are trying to persuade Sally Smith, who bought her Laptop from a
>>> local retail store, all fully loaded with all sorts of software. All she
>>> had to do was switch it on and give it a user name and set her password.
>>>
>>> That's what we're competing with, so we must try to recreate that user
>>> experience in our own way.
>>>
>>> However, you make an excellent point about users not knowing about
>>> Software Centre, but perhaps this could be better served with some
>>> explanatory information that is presented as the installer takes care of
>>> business
>>>
>>> ATB
>>>
>>> Rick Timmis
>>
>> if you do a good installer the first things will be
>>
>> * the partition stuff
>> *software to install
>>
> I am also aggree with this.
> Before there was a saying about choosing between minimal installation
> or custom installation. When it is custom, can users pick their
> favourite softwares before installation? For example in openSUSE they
> allow everything to be chosen before installation (maybe with yast ,
> but I dont know). So basics program installations can be selected. If
> user selects these programs,  then these may be added to their
> Favourite tab in Kickoff.
>
>> *keyboard language and user password stuff
>>
>> then the computer can do all the installation by itself wihout user actions
>>
>> so adding a question is good , users are not stupid i think a more question
>> will not kill them expecially if they want install linux that is not a ultra
>> easy task.
>> --
>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:30:47 +0200
> From: Jussi Schultink <jussi01 at ubuntu.com>
> To: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: tablets request
> Message-ID:
> 	<CALtuJ=+YTjn2ZqSPU_bmDqYzeO7EGui+KFxgXiXqg5-uRQ5ARw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sounds fine to me. Check with Aureliens contact, but if it doesn't work
> out, I have no issues with this.
>
> On a related subject, is there a list of transactions we have
> done/accounting style thing that can be published?
>
> Jussi
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Aur?lien G?teau <agateau at kde.org> wrote:
>
>> Le Wednesday 30 January 2013 15:52:28 Jonathan Riddell a ?crit :
>>> I've been playing around with a borrowed nexus 7 for a few days and
>>> got kubuntu running on it.  It's kindae working except QML doesn't
>>> seem to respond to anything (traditional widgets work fine) which is
>>> quite a limitation.
>>>
>>> Anyway I'd like to request to the kubuntu council permission to buy a
>>> nexus 7 and an archos G9 101 tablet to keep looking into this and get
>>> kubuntu images made.  The cost on amazon.co.uk is ?373.52
>> Have you tried to contact Matthias Welwarsky regarding Archos tablets?
>> Maybe
>> he can get you one at a cheaper price.
>>
>> Aur?lien
>>
>> --
>> kubuntu-devel mailing list
>> kubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
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> ------------------------------
>
I cannot really understand guys , how a different slider is gonna help 
people to better understand kubuntu ...., I mean I installed a lot of 
systems , but I never saw actually what 's in the slider ...., I usually 
run the live, run the installation and then while waiting , I just 
reduce to icon and start to play around to show what kubuntu is about 
(and I usually suggest to do the same when they do without me )....., so 
I don't really see the point to put more info on slider .
What a new user should do, take note about what slider is saying !?! :O

Now let's talk about current user experience. Once I installed and 
restart the system, I cannot see how to access my file, I cannot see any 
launcher for daily use software, and the only thing I can see on default 
desktop , is this horrible empty plasmoid which usually I remove with my 
first click.
Oh no wait, there are activities as well...., activities !?! Really do 
you think the only useful thing we can provide for new user is an access 
to activity !?! Not even experienced user are using it ....., what kind 
of impression do you think a new user will get opening activities empty 
selector (using the only extra button in the panel) !?!

Like I said on my first post, I think we should change our target users, 
and Kubuntu first experience , should be where you understand the real 
potential of KDE + Ubuntu. Right now it looks like "....welcome to your 
empty desktop, now you know how to build it around your needs.....", 
which is fine for us , but for new user ... !?!

I mean , I start to surf the web , and I will get  surely some problem 
with Rekonq, playing music with Amarok often it crashes or in many case 
it doesn't works properly, they cannot find anything they need and they 
don't knows nothing on how to add stuff and so on ...... The most  
probable reaction will be ".... well I cannot understand how people can 
be happy with it ....., I'll be back on my old system, so at least I 
know how to do things ...."

Anyway, reading this mailing list I'm not sure anymore that the 
intention of this community is to give the best first experience we can 
provide to new users....., so I don't know if I will suggest to install 
kubuntu to people who ask me how to start with linux, because there are 
many other distrò much more user friendly and KDE friendly I would say 
(just because they try to shows it's power).

But one day maybe Kubuntu as well be for newbbie who knows .....

Alex