userconfig broken

[Clay Weber]

Alex Fiestas <afiestas at kde.org> wrote:

>On Saturday 29 December 2012 12:30:13 Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> I may be wrong, but I had always considered KDE to target both the
>user that
>> doesn't care much about computers and users that are more into them. 
>The
>> more advanced user is the reason that all of the customization
>options are
>> important.
>Indeed customization is important, being able to manage groups from a
>GUI not 
>so much since those users will not mind doing it from the CLI (and
>again it is 
>something you hardly want to do).
>
>> While we should never enforce use of the GUI where it can be avoided,
>we
>> should, IMO, also strive to enable people that don't like command
>line to
>> avoid it.  When I say Linux to people one of their first reactions is
>> commonly that they don't want to have to open a shell and type lots
>of
>> commands.  The fact that I can honestly tell them that it's not
>necessary
>> makes them much more comfortable with trying it out.
>For reaching this point (using the cli) in the case we are talking
>about I 
>have yet to read a usecase that is not figurative or super cutting
>edge.
>
>> Userconfig was developed as a kuser replacement.  It was proposed to
>replace
>> it, but it never quite got to the top of the TODO list, so it's not
>part of
>> KDE SC.
>> 
>> As far as targets for your development efforts, I think the "About
>Me"
>> module covers the basic case and you should try to encompass both
>kuser and
>> userconfig functionality in what you are doing.  KDE SC already has
>two
>> user management functions ("About Me" and kuser) and I don't think it
>needs
>> three.
>> 
>> Of course, Rome wasn't built in a day and software isn't either, so
>"Replace
>> userconfig/kuser completely" may be a longer term goal, but I think
>it's a
>> good one.
>> 
>> As far as the case for group related functions goes, I think it is
>important
>> to be able to see a list of groups and membership in groups because
>"Is xxx
>> in group yyy" or "What users are listed as members of zzz" are
>reasonably
>> common troubleshooting/support questions.  Personally, although I
>regularly
>> edit /etc/group in vim on my servers, I use userconfig on Kubuntu
>systems
>> because it's harder to screw something up.  Just because I can do it
>by
>> hand, I prefer to take the safer route where I'm only
>checking/unchecking
>> boxes and not editing directly.
>Can you tell me why are you messing with groups in your Kubuntu box? In
>a 
>server I can understand but in a desktop? Give me use cases !
>
>As a personal note, we (KDE) won't be able to move forward if we keep
>thinking 
>on our old user base of hardcore users, do you know what most sysadmins
>do 
>these days? Use osx. I wonder why.
>
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As a relatively "regular" user, I do have to agree for the most part. However, enough people use something like Virtualbox that needs some group editing. I may be wrong but I do not recall  instructions there to do this using any method, just what group to add the user to. This is probably the only real life case where this is needed, but will make people howl when they discover that the gui tool is not there. Now I am one to try and figure out out but there are many who won't, will gripe loudly that Kubuntu sucks etc.

There are a fair number of people who do advanced things without using the advanced  (cli) tools that this does need to be considered, perhaps. 

Just my 1¢ though I am in agreement about a group administration gui not being needed by default. 
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