Project Timelord -- Initial consideration

[Jonathan Thomas]

On Martes 20 Octubre 2009 11:57:32 PM Alessandro Ghersi escribió:
> On Tuesday 20 October 2009 10:21:09 pm Jonathan Thomas wrote:
> > Hello fellow Kubuntu developers,
> >
> > Kubuntu, as we know, is a fairly good KDE distribution. (Otherwise we
> > would not be here reading this mailing list) However, things are not
> > perfect. In fact, things could be much better.
> >
> > "But what is Project Timelord?", you may ask, "and how does it relate to
> > Kubuntu's problems?" Both are good questions. Project Timelord is the
> > brainchild of the Kubuntu developer legend Harald Sitter; the culmination
> >  of several weeks of brainstorming by a handful of Kubuntu developers,
> >  focused towards identifying problems Kubuntu currently faces and
> > solutions for these problems.
> >
> > And now, we wish to bring Project Timelord to the attention of the
> > greater Kubuntu development community for input. You can find the
> > internal developer release announcement that outlines the purpose and
> > proposed solutions of Project Timelord at:
> >  http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfc7xjfj_18g8k5ztg4
> >
> > If it is decided that we would like to adopt Project Timelord as a goal
> > to work towards over the next few cycles, we can start towards
> > prioritizing the solutions and work towards forming a roadmap to
> > implementing these solutions. This way we can all stay in the know of
> > what is going on even if we are unable to attend UDS, and those attending
> > UDS will have a unified goal to work towards as they flesh out the
> > implementation details for Kubuntu 10.04, Lucid Lynx.
> >
> > The purpose of this email is to generate discussion to determine whether
> >  the Kubuntu developer community wishes to adopt this plan or not, as
> > well as to provide input on the brainstormed solutions. Until it is
> > decided, we would politely ask you to not announce the existence of the
> > project to the general public. We would like to hear your thoughts on the
> > initiative here, though. :)
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Jonathan "JontheEchidna" Thomas.
> 
> * About packaging flaw:
> 
> We lack in some "small" aspects of packaging.
> iirc last merge with Debian was 6 months ago with KDE 4.2.2, I think we
>  should merge every major release of KDE, to take our copyright and
>  *.lintian files updated, for example.
> Maybe Debian has improved the quality in its packages (like *.install
>  files, move files from one package to another one).
> At least we should see what Debian has done more often.
>
I have been keeping an eye on Debian's packaging since we merged. The 
packaging has stabalized since KDE 4.2 now that KDE 4 is in Sid (Debian 
unstable) so we should not have to do any huge merges any time soon. The 
changes have not been too large, and I've tried to make it a point to glean 
the more important fixes (In reality debian/copyright and lintian fixes aren't 
too terribly important, except in cases where lintian errors indicate bugs). 
In fact I did merge kdetoys and kdewebdev later on in the cycle.

That being said, it would not hurt for more developers to keep an eye on what 
Debian is doing, so that we don't miss packaging fixes.
> 
> * About user-developer interaction (my experience about thing that users
>  wants see):
> 
> Personally, my communication in my loco forum is great :)

Awesome. :)

> We keep a thread where speaking about new versions of KDE and Kubuntu
> development releases.
> Many users have helped me to testing the packages from update-staging ppa,
>  and I can say they are very happy to help developers. But, they would also
>  see what they want. I don't know if it's wish of only Kubuntu Italian
>  users but their wish is a Kubuntu ready for use.

That's great that they also help test!

> 
> Users are tired (after fresh install) to install every time for example
> Synaptic because kpackagekit doesn't manage some packages upgrade or in
> general because it doesn't manage their needs.
> They would see kpackagekit on default installation when is ready. And only
> when is ready.
> In mean time they would see a replacing of that.

I agree. KPackageKit doesn't really look like it'll be "ready" any time soon. 
Including GNOME stuff of any form will decrease the amount of language packs 
we can store on the default Live CD, but perhaps it is worth it since language 
packs can be easily downloaded.

> 
> Users are ready (sorry but not like some Kubuntu dev) for Kubuntu with gtk
> apps with QtCurve integration theme or one like that. "One like that" if
>  it's better than QtCurve, obviously.
> They want browse their phone and they must install blueman or they want an
> internet connection and they must sometimes (in special cases) install
> Ubuntu's networkmanager. Ah, well, Firefox too. Many Windows users install
> Firefox, after Windows installation. So for Windows users who switch to
> Kubuntu is strange not see Firefox. They say: "I used Firefox on Windows
>  and now I'm finally switched to an open source distribution where there is
>  no Firefox?
> Btw, now they are very happy that there is a "Firefox Installer".
> I'm wondering if we put Firefox on the cd what happens...they come
> home to any developer to embrace? :)
> 
> For me, the target users of Kubuntu distribution is users (especially
>  novice users) and not Kubuntu developer. So we must listen them and not
>  follow mysterious qt-only policy.
> They see many KDE distributions with GTK apps (like Opensuse, Sabayon,
> Mandriva... ) and they see that there aren't the problems that we have, so
>  are encouraged to swith to those distributions...but they want use
>  Kubuntu.
> 
> Conclusion, users are tired to see system applications broken on default
> installation just because there is a policy that says "no GTK" on the cd,
> moreover, this policy where is write and who decided?

I think that we should change this policy, since Human Beings usually care 
about working stuff more than Qt-only stuff.

> They don't know and would like to know, so if it is, we should communicate
> them that there is this policy and we can't do anything if some system
> applications are broken, because we ship only qt/kde.....for now ;)
> 
> Alessandro "Lex" Ghersi.
> 

Jonathan