Changes file no longer bundled in

[Brian K. White]

On 7/15/20 1:45 AM, Juerg Haefliger wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 16:46:37 -0400
> "Brian K. White" <b.kenyon.w at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/14/20 4:42 AM, DanglingPointer wrote:
>>> Is anyone going to respond to this?
>>>
>>> On 11/7/20 4:44 am, Brian K. White wrote:
>>>> I too would like to know why is there no more CHANGES file in the
>>>> mainline ppa after 5.6.17 ?
>>>>
>>>> https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.6.17/CHANGES
>>>>
>>>> https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.6.18/???
>>>>
>>>> Is it a glitch in the automation or an intentional change or the
>>>> result of an upstream change or ?? Is the equivalent info available
>>>> somewhere else?
>>>>   
>>>    
>>
>> And now I would also, separately, like to know, why there is no other
>> maintainer contact info to be found anywhere other than this list address?
> 
> Google 'ubuntu kernel-team' and the first hit is:

Ok, look, why would I google specifically the term "ubuntu kernel-team" 
before I knew that's what it was called, and that that's who maintained 
the mainline-ppa web site? How would I know that much to begin with?

When I duckduckgo "ubuntu mainline kernels" which is a reasonable search 
term for the info I actually have to start with, the first result is 
actually
https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
and the next is
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
and the rest are all over the rest of the internet not ubuntu or 
canonical. Similarly for "ubuntu mainline-ppa" another reasonable 
starting point.

When you go to https://kernel.ubuntu.com/
Or any of the kernel download folders,
what info is there?

Nothing. The only thing remotely like an about us or contact us is a 
link for all of Ubuntu.

I can't even find this very list address.

I think I must have got it from the Maintainer field inside of one of 
the .deb packages.

Ok? Are we done deflecting and trying to make a reasonable question 
sound unreasonable instead of just saying you don't have a good answer? 
You know it's actually ok to not have a great answer. Organizations are 
large and messy and there are always a pile of little details like that 
that are missed.

And I guess you forgot that google does not supply predictable 
consistent results to any two different people, as they now 
"personalize" search results. Even if I have that setting switched off, 
that very choice is now something I've done that you may or may not have 
done, and so, you can't use your own google experience as any sort of 
proof or assumptions about anyone else's google experience. They may 
have googled exactly the things you said, and not got what you assume.

But even if google still behaved like it did in 1998, 
"web-search-service" is not a great answer for "Why does X site not 
provide any sort of contact info for it's own operators?"


> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam
> 
> The mailing list is quite busy and things that are not patches can get lost.
> It's better to contact us via IRC (details mention on that wiki page).
> 
> 
>> It's annoying enough to have to join a mail list just to ask the
>> maintainer of a package a question about the package, but when that
>> address then doesn't even work because no one responds to email sent to
>> it, there is something broken there.
>>
>> How is it that there is this hostname kernel.ubuntu.com, and this ppa
>> ~kernel-ppa and no hint anywhere of who to contact about them? What if
>> the problem were less trivial than this question about the changelog file?
>>
>> Who maintains https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/ ?
> 
> Us, the kernel team.

That is a meaningless term, until anyone actually responded here.

What does "Us, the Kernel Team" mean? I don't know how you missed the 
point of those pointed questions, but I will explain the point:
"The Kernel Team" is not defined anywhere. There is no list of names or 
addresses. There is only this list address.

Now that someone answered, fine, it's a valid address that reaches the 
right person or people.


>> Why is that not an answerable question other than "Ubuntu"?
>> How does one ask "Ubuntu" this question about the kernel-ppa?
>> Is one really supposed to start at https://canonical.com/contact-us ?
> 
> I think with some googling you would have ended up on that wiki page.

I think you are being disingenuous.
How did you imagine I found this list in the first place?

(In fact, it wasn't even from googling that I finally found it, it had 
to come out of a packages embedded metadata, but regardless, your are 
responding to a post that I posted *here* so, obviously we were already 
past the point of saying "if you google...".

Now that someone has responded, the questions are resolved by the very 
fact that anyone responded at all. Mailing the only contact that is 
shown anywhere, this address, does reach at least someone who is in some 
way part of the administration of that site. Good enough.


Anyway now that we're past all that, I would like to clarify, I at least 
am not necessarily demanding everything be put back exactly the way it 
was. It caused a tiny issue for me as maintainer of 
github.com/bkw777/mainline, because a few users complained that the 
button that displays the changelog stopped working.

But I don't really care what the answer turns out to be about the 
changelogs. I do agree with the users that it's something that should be 
supplied but mostly I just wanted to know what to do. If it had been an 
intentional change for some reason, then I know to just remove the 
button or try to collect the same info from elsewhere. But if it's not 
intentional and it's something broken that is intended to go back the 
way it was, then I know not to do anything. Which is what it sounds like 
from what you said, so, thank you.

-- 
bkw