ltsp local apps + nat + ....

R. Scott Belford scott at
Fri Jul 24 02:29:30 BST 2009

I appreciate your response, Jordan, and your tireless, thankless, and
unpaid efforts, Scott.

I have long since grown weary of the tit for tat and one-upsmanship,
Scott.  You've done more than I ever have or could, times two, and
thanks.  Good job.  I still cannot put a DOE teacher on this list and
expect anything good to come of it.


What does this arbitrary listing of people have to do with who is
involved with Edubuntu?

I'll leave it at this.  I have not the energy nor the concern to rival
the developers here on the users list.  Ubuntu and Canonical have been
transformational at taking the good work of Debian and making it
better.  Why on earth is the Edubuntu project not building upon and
improving the good work of Skolelinux/Debian-Edu?

If there is not the community to do it for you, and the experience has
jaded the few remaining developers this much, is it possible that you
just made a mistake trying to go it alone as evidenced by your
results?  I would advise the Edubuntu Community to do a re-mix of, or
just a pure collaboration with, Debian-Edu.  I have found the LTSP
maintainer with Debian to be very kind, gracious, and interested in
user feedback and bug reports on the mailing list itself.

I am not trying to be negative.  I am trying to be honest.  Perhaps
Edubuntu just needed to be a Desktop distro.  It was not the users who
claimed that it was more secure than LTSP 4.2, and that it was ready
to roll as a thin client server.  If it has taken two years' of
squabbles for a thin client server to provide NAT services *without*
requiring the tweaking of config files, and it still doesn't, the
discussion of how to organize the Wiki so users can find how to do
themselves is a completely pointless and unproductive discussion.

Please consider changing the description of this project on the Users
mailing list until it becomes what it claims.  Until then, you are
damaging the good work that is already there and to which many are
pleasantly contributing.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Scott Balneaves<sbalneav at> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:55:12AM -1000, R. Scott Belford wrote:
>> The most successful and easy-to-use K12 gnu/linux distro with LTSP
>> integration was the K12LTSP, and the bug process was the mailing list.
>>  The kind and wonderful people like Jim McQuillan and Eric Harrison,
>> among others, listened to the input from the *USER* list and acted
>> accordingly.  This spirit and opportunity has been lost and even
>> discouraged on this *USER* mailing list.  It is hard to come forward
>> and say, 'hey, I know this is supposed to be easy, and I see that all
>> you smart people make it look that way, bu I feel stupid asking for
>> help, but, help?...."
> Several things of note here:
> 1) Neither Jim, nor Eric, are actively involved with LTSP anymore.  In fact,
> the simple reason *why* Jim and I originally came up with the idea of LTSP5
> (muekow) was because the old model was unsustainable.  For about 2.5 years,
> during the LTSP 4.2 days, even though I was paid full time as a sysadmin at
> Legal Aid, I was pretty much doing *nothing* but LTSP.  Why?  Simply because
> we, as you point out, answered every question, implemented every idea, wrote
> all the code.  Jim McQuillan implemented the original cut of LTSP in summer
> 1999, and I became involved in Fall 1999, and for the next 6+ years, it was
> just the two of us working on it.  No one else got involved, because, hey, no
> one else *needed* to get involved.  Jim and I did it all.
> Until we got tired of doing it all.
> GNU/Linux has grown beyond the days of a few kind souls doing it all: it's HAD
> to.  Simply because as users wanted more and more features, the same few people
> couldn't keep up.
> And since when have we ever *discouraged* people from asking questions.  The
> only thing I seek to discourage people from thinking is that Edubuntu is some
> huge project with a massive paid staff that's supposed to be fixing all it's
> problems.
> There's 9 Edubuntu members, and 3 of them have been inactive for a while now.
> All I'm trying to point out to everyone here is: if people want things to
> progress faster, we *need* people to get involved.
> Heck: Gavin, who answers more questions on this list than anyone, isn't even a
> member!  Gavin!  What's up with that, dude? :)
>> Please note, and this has always confused me, Canonical provides us
>> with an edubuntu-devel mailing list for developers interested in
>> making the magic.  Why is it not the place for discussion, and why is
>> this list not mined for *trends* that clearly need attention?  The
>> description of the devel list is here:
> With the exception of LaserJock, stgraber, and myself, we have almost no other
> "full time" developers.  And we *are* mining for trends: handbook and sabayon
> are our two biggest needs right now, and we're frantically working on them.
> I know I keep sounding like a broken record, and a whiney one at that, but...
> ".... why is this list not mined for *trends* that clearly need attention?"
> Once again the implicit "you" is in there.  Why aren't "you guys" doing this?
> The reason why is, currently, the "you guys" is so vanishingly small that
> our plates are full just keeping the bus on the road.
> In some golden tomorrow when there's 100 developers, and 10 or 12 people who
> make it their task to answer all questions, then yeah, "we" will be able to
> handle things better.  But right now, there's no "we" without "you" becoming
> involved.
> <snip marketing speach about what the devel list is supposed to be>
>> Edubuntu aims to be an Ubuntu variant...
> Aims.  I'd say we're missing the mark right now.  If you agree, then there's
> one, and only one, solution.  Get involved.
>> I'll be on the Users mailing list if anyone wants to hear from me/us.
> We've been listening.  And we're pedalling as fast as we can.  But from me, at
> least, this is the plaintive cry: If we're not going fast enough for you, I
> understand.  But I, and the others, can't pedal any faster.
> We're just going to have more pedallers.
> Remember: Edubuntu is spelled Ed*you*buntu.
> Cheers,
> Scott
> --
> Scott L. Balneaves | Life may have no meaning... or even worse,
> Systems Department | it may have a meaning of which I disapprove.
> Legal Aid Manitoba |     -- Ashleigh Brilliant
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