[ubuntu-art] gtk theme

[Andrea Cimitan]

Il giorno mer, 05/03/2008 alle 13.52 +0100, Sebastian Billaudelle ha
scritto:
> Hi folks!
> 
> Because my modem-driver is broken (never play around with
> startup-scripts;-)) I wasn't able to read the mails.
> I'll do it later, because I'm sitting in an internet cafe and I'm a
> little bit short in time.
> 
> I'm sorry for my bad and short post. I'll post more later!
> 
> I've looked into the xl_cheese-/clearlooks-engine and changed some
> points.
> I could go on like this fixing the points written before.
> 
> At first, there was the problem that windows without a toolbar looked
> ugly, because the color of the menubar was not the same as the windows
> bg-color.
> That's changed now: The menubar is colored like the background of the
> window and the gradient of the toolbar is changed a little bit to fit
> to that change...
> 
> The first point is the "unity of the menubaritem and the menu itself".
> I looked into the code of the eXperience-engine and hacked a little
> bit in clearlooks.
> That should work now to, even if the menu is placed higher than the
> menubar (Then the menubaritem-widget is turned "upside down").
> Compiz/Emerald is still a problem...
I'm the Clearlooks developer (yes Murrine too :P ), my friend Benzea is
the Maintainer of Clearlooks, and he is the author of the eXperience
engine :D
So we will implement (he is the right guy to do this) this feature the
day we get a sane way to do it, without the hackish way in eXperience.
Another *huge* problem is that menuitems don't get shadows, so the whole
menu will always look ugly, except an highly decentered shadow like in
your sceenshot.
(I'm using centered shadows, with 0 x-y offset, like a lot of huys... so
this feature without shadow on menuitems will cause just glitches)
> 
> Here's a little screenshot:
> http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfoto1su9.png
> Later I'll upload the engine, but I've to clean up the code before
> (This was my first contact to C;-)).
NO, please NO yet another engine. I was totally against the decision of
xlcheese to publish his patch as another engine and I will against a
similar idea.
Many years ago was created a tool, called DIFF, do publish your patches
in a clean and simple way.
Just attach your patch for Clearlooks, Murrine or whatever.
In a future, if the patch is sane and we agree (in the meaning it's not
hackish and it will work with compiz/shadows), that thing could be part
of Gnome.
It's so useless to publish a fork with more than 95% of the same code.
Yes, NODOKA (aka murrine with a different name and fixed hilight_ratio
and other options) is an useless engine. And I will be laughing when
I'll publish the next release which is faster, better looking,
alpha-capable, with a *100 times better* structured code :) Just to
notice its capabilities, Murrine's SVN in just 10 lines of code can
emulate Nodoka engine, with the benefits of a faster but also more
secure/stable code :) (just add style = NODOKA in your gtkrc) eheh 

> 
> cheers stein
cheers Cimi
> 
> Am Mittwoch, den 05.03.2008, 12:13 +0100 schrieb Andrea Cimitan: 
> > Il giorno mer, 05/03/2008 alle 11.35 +0100, Kenneth Wimer ha scritto:
> > > On Tuesday 04 March 2008 16:22:09 Andrea Cimitan wrote:
> > > > You cannot rename human theme from ubuntulooks to murrine/clearlooks and
> > > > blame about those gtk-engines.
> > > 
> > > the idea was not to simply rename anything. The gtkrc's we put in are just for 
> > > testing and are in no way final. I never said I knew how to hack on gtkrc 
> > > files ;-) The notes I wrote below are just the reults of looking at the 
> > > clearlooks and murrine themes and trying to decide where each has a 
> > > weekness/strength in relation to ubuntulooks
> > Before writing a Gtkrc, there must be at least *an idea* of what is the
> > style of an engine.
> > Clearlooks and Murrine are completely different, and they CAN'T have the
> > same colors (as it seems from those screenshots).
> > > 
> > > > A theme should be written from scratch with an engine in mind, these are
> > > > probably the weird themes I have seen in years :)
> > > > Even ubuntulooks, which is one of the less-liked gtk-engine, seems a way
> > > > better than both clearlooks and murrine.
> > > 
> > > So you are saying that ubuntulooks is better than both clearlooks and murrine? 
> > > I do agree that writing something from scratch is the better option, but I am 
> > > not a developer :D
> > > 
> > No, ubuntulooks is absolutely the last engine, in terms of liking and
> > stability, bugs, security. But with those weird gtkrcs, it looks better.
> > Murrine in the svn is much more stable than the 0.53.1 release, was
> > rewritten from scratch, and support the ability to change gradients and
> > a lot of things directly in the gtkrc.
> > Also adding custom widgets should be much more simpler.
> > > > I really hope these and derivates will NEVER be part of ubuntu.
> > > 
> > > No worries, they probably won't be...at least not in this form.
> > > 
> > > > If you want those engines, you should tweak the color palette, with
> > > > shadings and some hue changes. Or stick to ubuntulooks, which uses
> > > > colors in a *fake* way (I mean that it does what it wants, bg[SELECTED]
> > > > is used for the prelight, for example...).
> > > 
> > > This is something very interesting to me but way out of my scope. I would need 
> > > to understand what is "good" and what is "bad" in gtkrc as I am used to just 
> > > editing the thing until it looks like I want it to.
> > Clearlooks loves bg[selected] with saturation < 45/100 ad value <
> > 86/100.
> > Murrine should look great with a lot of colorschemes (because of the
> > glossiness), but you must take a look at the contrast (see the horrible
> > scrollbar in Human murrine)
> > > 
> > > > If you want great themes, maybe following Tangerine's palette (much more
> > > > adaptable to a gtk theme), I have few great ones.
> > > 
> > > I would love to see anything you have. For Hardy we will stick with the same 
> > > main desktop colors as we always have used, it being the last of the cycle 
> > > and all.
> > Just for a hint, Mirco Muller is using a Murrine theme which I gave him
> > a year ago. With a matching wallpaper too.
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the information, I hope we can discuss this more in the future.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Ken
> > > 
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Il giorno lun, 03/03/2008 alle 12.29 +0100, Kenneth Wimer ha scritto:
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess that everyone noticed the change in gtk theme (we are using
> > > > > murrine at the moment). I also included a clearlooks theme as well and
> > > > > we'll test that in a couple of days). Both themes definitely need
> > > > > improvement if they are going to replace Ubuntu Looks which, although it
> > > > > does have minor bugs, has a definte look and is quite well polished. With
> > > > > an eye to the future, here is a list of +'s and -'s for each theme. In
> > > > > many cases the -'s can be easily solved ...feel free to help :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >   Human Ubuntu Looks (#1):
> > > > >    - lines between menu bar, toolbars and windows are bad; but we don't
> > > > >      have to get rid of them just yet
> > > > >    + we like the obviously ticked checkboxes and radio buttons
> > > > >    + and that the tick from the checkbox is larger than the box
> > > > >    - toggle button doesn't share the obviousness
> > > > >    + liked the markers in the progress bars
> > > > >    + liked the inset tray look of sliders
> > > > >    + liked the filled insides of sliders
> > > > >    + liked the prelight colour of scrollbars
> > > > >    + liked tab colours and no gradient
> > > > >    + selected/active light orange bg (menu's, etc) color is perfect
> > > > >
> > > > >    Human Clearlooks (#2):
> > > > >    - menubar different colour to everything else
> > > > >    - gradient buttons instead of glossy
> > > > >    - no prelight of scrollbars
> > > > >    - no colour inside sliders
> > > > >    - checkboxes not obviously checked
> > > > >    + but toggle buttons are much more obvious
> > > > >    - don't like tab gradients
> > > > >    + but colour is ok
> > > > >    - progress bars look like tanks, no markers
> > > > >
> > > > >    Human Murrine (#3):
> > > > >    - lines between menu bar and toolbars, and toolbars and rest of
> > > > >      window; not urgent to remove
> > > > >    ? menu bar is very strange
> > > > >    + but the menus themselves look great with the gutter
> > > > >    - quite square in shape, rounded is more pleasing to the eye
> > > > >    - progress bars are tanks, no markers, and not inset
> > > > >    - sliders also not inset
> > > > >    + but filled
> > > > >    + obviously checked
> > > > >    - but white
> > > > >    - toggle button isn't obvious at all, quite nasty in fact
> > > > >    + tabs have no gradient and gutter colours
> > > > >    - no scrollbar prelight
> > > > >    - entire scrollbar coloured
> > > 
> > 
> >