<html> <head> <style></style></head> <body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>That does make a fair bit of sense +1 <div>> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:44:42 +0200 > From: simon@xfce.org > To: xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Subject: Re: [TEAM] Drop XChat for 14.10 > > On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:14:12 +0300 > Pasi Lallinaho <pasi@shimmerproject.org> wrote: > > > On 2014-07-31 06:33, Micah Gersten wrote: > > > On 07/29/2014 07:10 AM, Simon Steinbeiß wrote: > > >> Hey Xubuntu team members, > > >> > > >> we started voting on a proposal for the default IRC client in > > >> today's meeting[0]. > > >> > > >> In short, what we're voting on is whether to drop XChat for Xubuntu > > >> 14.10. > > >> > > >> == Rationale == > > >> > > >> Those who need IRC can still use pidgin and this is a consistent > > >> move in terms of streamlining our default applications (remember > > >> the dropping of GThumb in 14.04). > > >> This decision would be revisited for 15.04, so if we'd see the > > >> need, we could re-add XChat (or hexchat). > > >> > > >> == Voting == > > >> > > >> Just reply with +1, 0 or -1 to this thread – you can obviously also > > >> explain why you voted one or the other way. So far, we have 4 votes > > >> from team members for the proposal to drop XChat and 0 against > > >> (and 0 abstained). > > >> > > >> Please note that ONLY XUBUNTU TEAM MEMBERS CAN VOTE. Other votes > > >> are ignored, so please don't send a vote and waste bandwidth > > >> unless you are an active member of the Xubuntu team [1]. > > >> > > >> == End of vote == > > >> > > >> This vote will expire in one week (June 6th, 10:00 UTC), so please > > >> send in your votes in a timely manner. > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> Simon > > >> Xubuntu Project Lead > > >> > > >> [0] > > >> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-07-29-10.30.log.txt > > >> [1] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members#active > > >> > > > -1 I used to use Pidgin's IRC support when I used the other chat > > > protocols supported in Pidgin. When XChat was to be added, IIRC, I > > > originally pushed that we could just use Pidgin for IRC. However, I > > > eventually switched to XChat as Pidgin's support for 20+ channels > > > per server was lacking. I've been using XChat for a while now and > > > it seems a very simple to use tool to access freenode amongst other > > > servers. I agree with others that have stated in this thread that > > > since IRC is such an integral part of the Ubuntu community, we'd be > > > best served to keep an easy to use client like XChat. If there is > > > a simpler client that can be integrated, I'd be open to that. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Micah > > > > > > > Is this argument based on solely on your own needs and wants or the > > target audience of Xubuntu? > > > > I'd argue that most of our target audience users do not wish to join > > 20+ channels (per server) at a time. On the other hand, those who do > > know how to install their favorite IRC client from the repositories. > > They might even prefer other options, like running screen and irssi > > on a server. In both of these cases the default pick for an IRC > > client is mostly irrelevant for them. > > > > On another note for this discussion, some of the arguments against > > have been in the spirit of "if we drop Xchat, it's too hard for new > > people to join the IRC for a support question". How is running Xchat > > and finding your way to #xubuntu easier than navigating to > > http://xubuntu.org/irc/ (which is available in our installation > > slideshow) and clicking connect? > > > > Cheers, > > Pasi > > I completely agree with Pasi on this one. > Even if IRC is an integral part of the Ubuntu community, we currently > provide three avenues to get there (Webchat, XChat, Pidgin) and the > argument that Pidgin isn't good enough for advanced IRC usage misses > the point of this proposal. > (But I guess the right way to take that is that maybe the proposal was > flawed or written up to hastily, assuming that since those present at > the meeting agreed, all others would too, hence not presenting all the > arguments.) > > Fun fact: I don't know anyone in person who has installed X/Ubuntu and > then used IRC to get support. Those folks just used > $your_favorite_searchengine. > This is NOT meant as anecdotal evidence to support my argument, but it > illustrates that everyone has to accept the premise that IRC is the > "golden path" for people to get support. (Just because the community > and the contributors use IRC doesn't mean users will.) > > Be that as it may... > Why I wanted to go ahead with this proposal is because I think that > 14.10 is the perfect time to experiment a bit and get some feedback on > things. If people complain about the lack of XChat – if there's a > shitstorm about it even – I wouldn't take that as a failure of our > decision but as a great reason to install it again by default, knowing > for sure that it makes sense for many users. > > Cheers > Simon > > -- > xubuntu-devel mailing list > xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel </div> </div></body> </html>