<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Altogether this is an unfortunate situation, but there was little we could do in time to get it fixed. For 14.04, we're looking to migrate to a panel that has GTK3 support. This should fix all the indicator issues/breakages that happened in the last few cycles. This was one of the options for 13.10, but at that point of time we the patch was relatively untested, wasn't in the repositories and we were really short on time. The other option wasn't trivial either, and would have taken valuable developer time as well. In the end, trying to fix the GTK2 indicator stack would have meant a lot of work to get it working for 13.10. Whether we would have continued with that stack or not for 14.04 had it been done can't be evaluated. It's pretty certain that the GTK2 indicator stack would have kept on breaking, and we would have had to continue fixing those issues. All this being said, we shall look at backporting the GTK3 indicators to 13.10 later when the work on them is done. However, since I don't contribute to packaging or code-development, I'm the wrong person to say if this is likely or not. I see how people switching to other distros or back to older versions of Xubuntu could be considered a bad thing. From my personal point of view (all Xubuntu hats off), I don't think other open source OS's are our competitors. People have very different needs and workflows and they should use whatever works for them, whether it was Xubuntu, Ubuntu or any of its flavors or something completely different. Ultimately, 13.10 is not an LTS release, and those who want the maximum stability should keep with the LTS's. Again, it's unfortunate but things are going to break now and then. Now let's try to make 14.04 better; you all are welcome to help us with testing and whatever your skills and time allow! Cheers, Pasi On 05/12/13 00:18, Lutz Andersohn wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:529FAA41.7060907@gmail.com" type="cite"> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Thumbs up for Peter's sentiment expressed in his email. I might add, even for the users skilled enough and willing to dig down and apply a workaround, it takes time. The situation becomes even more frustrating if something used to work and got broken! I personally feel that all distro's spend not enough time on regression testing when any new release comes out. New features are good but not at the expense of something that used to work. <div class="moz-signature">Lutz Andersohn <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lutz.andersohn@gmail.com">lutz.andersohn@gmail.com</a> (925) 784 1565 D-19318, AFF-I <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/b65/2b6">http://www.linkedin.com/pub/1/b65/2b6</a> Public key ID: 0x9620D1A6</div> On 12/04/2013 03:36 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:529FA047.603@silmaril.ie" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">On 12/04/2013 05:33 PM, Bruno Benitez wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Hello Richard, as I understand from the meetings we have held, if there is enough need of it our developers can make a fix through the backport channel. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">Speaking as a project manager (in a different field), I have every sympathy with this point of view... </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">It is very sad that we have this issue in first place, but control over sound was available and lots of tutorials on how to fix it where also available, if users would abandon just for this cause there is no much else we can do. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">...speaking as a psychologist, I would say that it may be useful for developers to understand that users *do* abandon distros for this kind of thing, and for even smaller ones. Their reasoning is that "if the developers can't get the small things right," (and they would view a plugin indicator as a "small thing"), "then there is little hope of the big things being right." It's a frighteningly brutal viewpoint, and when it happens in a commercial environment, a damaging one. The British have a phrase for it: "to spoil the ship for a pennyworth of tar" (from the days when wooden ships needed waterproofing with tar). On the other hand, it acts as a filter: users who do not have the inclination or skill to find a fix will leave the community. In the long term this may reduce the demand for support. </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">In any case the fix for the plugin indicators will be included in 14.04 and it will be an LTS, so that would be the recommended solution to anyone, just wait a few months. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">A new user probably won't wait a few months to get a sound indicator working. They'll give up and install something else. ///Peter </pre> </blockquote> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Pasi Lallinaho (knome) » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://open.knome.fi/">http://open.knome.fi/</a> Leader of Shimmer Project and Xubuntu » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://shimmerproject.org/">http://shimmerproject.org/</a> Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://xubuntu.org/">http://xubuntu.org/</a></pre> </body> </html>