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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/07/13 19:27, Ali Linx (amjjawad)
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAohP4ty6=H6QOS8Kp+Aix3J22PYu5Q6PsWKWFqgP6Zpy7VfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Elizabeth Krumbach
Joseph <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lyz@ubuntu.com" target="_blank">lyz@ubuntu.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 5:30 AM, Ali Linx
(amjjawad) <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:amjjawad@gmail.com">amjjawad@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
><br>
> I have noticed there is no mention to the general
or user Xubuntu Mailing<br>
> List whereas almost on every page, there is a
mention of the Development<br>
> Mailing list. We all know that the general/user
mailing list is important<br>
> for the user who are not interested to join the
development discussions and<br>
> seek some help/support.<br>
<br>
</div>
I assume you mean there is no mention on our wiki? Please
read<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu" target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu</a><br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think there is no 'clear' and 'direct' mention on the
Wiki/Website where 'NEW' users and beginners can find what
they are looking for 'easily' and 'in short time' :)</div>
<div>Maybe I wasn't clear enough so hope I made myself clear
now - my apology for not being clear :)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
How is<br>
"Support for Xubuntu users can be found on the <a class="http"
href="http://xubuntu.org/help/">Help & Support</a> page on our
website."<br>
and<br>
"If you are looking for general information about Xubuntu,
please visit the <a class="http" href="http://xubuntu.org/">Xubuntu
website</a>. Among other things, the website features download
links, team blog, list of support methods and information on how to
start contributing."<br>
not clear?<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAohP4ty6=H6QOS8Kp+Aix3J22PYu5Q6PsWKWFqgP6Zpy7VfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">As
explained there, our wiki is designed specifically to be<br>
collaboration space for current contributors to the
Xubuntu project,<br>
it's not designed to be a user-facing space. </blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am sorry, could you please explain what does it mean?
"user-facing space"??!!</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
It means that we consider the wiki to be a tool for our contributors
– not our users.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAohP4ty6=H6QOS8Kp+Aix3J22PYu5Q6PsWKWFqgP6Zpy7VfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">This
is a specific decision we made a few cycles ago </blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm still new here so good to know this information :)
thank you!</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">when
we realized there was unnecessary and unmaintained overlap
between our wiki and our website.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I totally understand that. But this issue can be
solved easily :)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Exactly, it's solved now as the wiki is contributor-oriented and the
website is user-oriented.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAohP4ty6=H6QOS8Kp+Aix3J22PYu5Q6PsWKWFqgP6Zpy7VfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">We
worked pretty hard to reduce the number of pages we
maintain on the<br>
wiki.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We are not talking about reducing and increasing the
number of pages, I'm preciously talking about: being
helpful to new users/beginners as much as possible. Most
people (this is a human nature) are looking for the
easiest and the shortest way to find what they are looking
for. Some are waiting someone to feed them. I'm not
talking about those who are waiting for someone to feed
them, I'm against that. They need to learn how to feed
themselves. I'm talking about NEW people and beginners who
are 'still' learning and need a push here and there to
make the process of learning as easy as possible.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
The obvious and simplest solution for a new user is to go on the
website, not find a wiki.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAohP4ty6=H6QOS8Kp+Aix3J22PYu5Q6PsWKWFqgP6Zpy7VfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>You can add a clear and direct link of the Mailing List
to the Wiki just like you did with the Dev List :)</div>
<div>I see no reason why not to include that?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
If you are wise enough to find the Xubuntu wiki, we expect you to be
able to read and understand what's written in it.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAohP4ty6=H6QOS8Kp+Aix3J22PYu5Q6PsWKWFqgP6Zpy7VfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>Forget the page I linked previously. That was an
example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Our
user-facing space is Xubuntu.org itself, which has very
clear help<br>
links which include to our IRC channel, mailing list and
more.<br>
<span class=""><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></blockquote>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Ubuntu
Beta',UbuntuBeta,Ubuntu,'Bitstream Vera Sans','DejaVu
Sans',Tahoma,sans-serif;line-height:19px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://xubuntu.org/help/">http://xubuntu.org/help/</a><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Ubuntu
Beta',UbuntuBeta,Ubuntu,'Bitstream Vera Sans','DejaVu
Sans',Tahoma,sans-serif;line-height:19px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Fine, but IMHO:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1- Adding a link for the user mailing list on the 'Wiki
Area' is not bad idea :)</div>
<div>2- Adding the Dev Mailing List on the "Help &
Support" is not very helpful. New Users will join and send
their support Qs and seek help on that list. Instead,
IMHO, I think it is better to be here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://xubuntu.org/contribute/">http://xubuntu.org/contribute/</a> only
:)</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
#2 is a different issue, and is something that could be changed.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAohP4ty6=H6QOS8Kp+Aix3J22PYu5Q6PsWKWFqgP6Zpy7VfFA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>I can tell that you are focusing more on the Website.
To make it a good area for users. That is totally
different from my previous experience but that is NOT
wrong, I do LIKE that a lot :) I wish others could follow
your steps.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope you see my point now :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Ubuntu
Beta',UbuntuBeta,Ubuntu,'Bitstream Vera Sans','DejaVu
Sans',Tahoma,sans-serif;line-height:19px">"All of us are
smarter than any one of us."</span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><b style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif"><span
style="color:rgb(11,83,148)">Best Regards,</span></b><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif"><b><span
style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/"
target="_blank">amjjawad</a></span></b><br>
</span></div>
<span style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif"><b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/CommunicationsTeam/WOWLubuntu/StartUbuntu"
target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(204,0,0)">Start
Ubuntu</span></a></b><br>
</span>
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><font color="#000000"
face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://alilinx.blogspot.com/"
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"
target="_blank">My Own Business</a></b></font></div>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><font color="#000000"
face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yt,<br>
Pasi<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://open.knome.fi/">http://open.knome.fi/</a>
Leader of Shimmer Project and Xubuntu » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://shimmerproject.org/">http://shimmerproject.org/</a>
Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member » <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://xubuntu.org/">http://xubuntu.org/</a></pre>
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