Hello,<div> </div><div>This is the first time I post to the mailing list so to everyone hello! I think the major problem with Xubuntu isn't software selection but "look and feel" and corporate branding. Finding applications on the Ubuntu Software Center or via Synaptic/APT is so easy that it basically any additional packages can just be downloaded after installation. In fact I don't even think that very many default applications should be included. The experience should be geared towards customization so I think the focus should be to have a very simple and bare bones default install.</div> <div> </div><div>Xubuntu should reflect Ubuntu and Canonical and the XFCE logo should be replaced with Canonical oriented graphics and logos that make people know they are using Ubuntu and not a generic XFCE distribution. The crucial areas are the application menu, greeter screen and the wallpapers. These should match 100% with the exact same logos, graphics and wallpapers included in the default Ubuntu installs. I can't really tell the difference between Fedora XFCE and Xubuntu when it's running and that's a major problem. The difference should be clear as day and people should instantly recognize Xubuntu as the Ubuntu and therefore Canonical oriented XFCE spin.</div> <div> </div><div>Themes are also very important. The icons should be by default Faenza so to create a very cool and fresh look that matches well with the Ubuntu Unity icon sets. The actual XFCE themes by default should match standard Unity Ubuntu installations with a Xubuntu specific theme port of both Ambiance and Radiance. These themes should be default but greybird, bluebird and albatross should also be included. The whole idea is to create an experience that visually matches with whatever the Ubuntu Unity guys are doing and is parallel. </div> <div> </div><div>Most of my time is spent customizing the look and feel of Xubuntu to get it to look sharp, cool and to match well with the thematic aspects of Ubuntu Unity. This shouldn't ever happen. Out of the box Xubuntu should match up 1:1 with the Ubuntu Unity look and feel and Canonical branding efforts. I even had to replace the Xfce mouse icon with the official Ubuntu logo in the application menu and I wish that it was this way by default. </div> <div> </div><div>Just my thoughts and thank you for an awesome distribution...</div><div> </div><div>Best,</div><div>Alex </div> <div class="gmail_extra"> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:55 AM, <<a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel-request@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send xubuntu-devel mailing list submissions to <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel</a> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel-request@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a> You can reach the person managing the list at <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel-owner@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel-owner@lists.ubuntu.com</a> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of xubuntu-devel digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (Eero Tamminen) 2. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (paco) 3. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (David Berm?dez Guiot) 4. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (Sean Davis) 5. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (Bruno Benitez) 6. Re: Could use some help on some 12.10 FAQ (Brian Smith) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:55:10 +0200 From: Eero Tamminen <<a href="mailto:oak@helsinkinet.fi" target="_blank">oak@helsinkinet.fi</a>> To: <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:201211291355.10852.oak@helsinkinet.fi" target="_blank">201211291355.10852.oak@helsinkinet.fi</a>> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, On torstai 29 marraskuu 2012, PK wrote: > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish list > for Xubuntu 13.04 with you: > > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is > a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So > it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I > *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural > place is in a mini like Lubuntu... What are the advantages of LibreOffice compared to Abiword and Gnumeric, is there anything else besides better (but not perfect) compatibility with Microsoft Office? Downsides of LibreOffice: - Starts very slowly - Uses a lot of memory - Huge disk usage with lots of otherwise redundant dependencies - it for example brings in Java - Isn't IMHO integrated as nicely to the desktop (help etc) Generally I almost always prefer using Gnumeric over LOCalc, as in my experience Gnumeric works better for the basic spreadsheet stuff. While it loads Excel spreadsheets OK, they might not look that good. AFAIK Abiword got support for multi-user document editing from OLPC project, which is a feature completely missing from LibreOffice, isn't it? Another alternative is to document better how user can add extra software after installation. There could even be an icon on the desktop that opens software center to LibreOffice. (With icon comment stating something about MS-office compatibility) > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool > professional tool... Would this be in addition to Ubuntu software center? (While that is pretty and provides user reviews, it's so slow that half the time I use Synaptic.) > Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a powerful > statement about it's coolness. Coolness isn't the first thing that springs to mind from MS-office and stuff that's compatible to it. I would associate that more with stuff that is geared towards artists and creativity in general; graphics, sound, music, animation, 3d modeling and science software. Examples of this kind of software are: gimp, audacity, hydrogen, qsynth & vmpk, synfig, blender, stellarium etc. Unfortunately a lot of music SW brings in Qt libraries and soundfonts can be pretty large too. Qsynth & VMPK are pretty cool though, you can play e.g. multitimbral church organ with your keyboard. :-) (Horgand gives even better organ sound, but that requires Jack.) > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are > dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and DVD+RW > that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find > CD-R's, if you're lucky. In my experience Xubuntu & Gnome DVD (ISO) burning software is too buggy to change the distribution to DVD images. Whenever I try them, I get DVD frisbees, KDE's K3b is the only SW with which I've reliably gotten DVD images burned. (I haven't tried DVD-burning with the latest 12.x (X)Ubuntu releases, but I've tried with several different machines / CD-drives.) - Eero ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:11:33 +0100 From: paco <<a href="mailto:paco@byasl.com" target="_blank">paco@byasl.com</a>> To: <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:50B750F5.6020502@byasl.com" target="_blank">50B750F5.6020502@byasl.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, El 29/11/12 12:17, PK escribi?: > Hello, > > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish > list for Xubuntu 13.04 with you: > > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu > is a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and > KDE. So it needs to have a professional office suite by default. > Note that I *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But > it's natural place is in a mini like Lubuntu... > > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a > cool professional tool... > > Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a > powerful statement about it's coolness. > > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's > are dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and > DVD+RW that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can > still find CD-R's, if you're lucky. - From my point of view, CD issue is very important and to preserve Xubuntu on a size to fit on CD guarantee the possibility to use on old machines. So in my opinion any addition of software must avoid this goal. > > What do you think? > > Regards, Pjotr. > Best regards - -- Francisco Molinero <a href="http://www.pacoaldia.com" target="_blank">www.pacoaldia.com</a> Este correo ha sido gestionado con Linux No lo imprima si no es absolutamente necesario -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlC3UPUACgkQ9jyJLqwCW/nU8wCeO/P6yquCS+GxlF34cRMRzG8U 6+0AoIfnjeWX7wJxe32k4Lpsx4VmRlFZ =82eq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 07:33:14 -0600 From: David Berm?dez Guiot <<a href="mailto:davidb.guiot@gmail.com" target="_blank">davidb.guiot@gmail.com</a>> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <<a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a>> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 Message-ID: <CALPgYzFovtXL=<a href="mailto:sJMY4NNBEUKBvKs275i3o2En9P_56-HrTLrCg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">sJMY4NNBEUKBvKs275i3o2En9P_56-HrTLrCg@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I agree with Paco about almost everything, and also you can still put the iso in a flash drive to install it or run it live. Have a great day guys! David Berm?dez Guiot Mail para Android El 29/11/2012 05:18, "PK" <<a href="mailto:pliniusminor@gmail.com" target="_blank">pliniusminor@gmail.com</a>> escribi?: > Hello, > > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish list > for Xubuntu 13.04 with you: > > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is > a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So > it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I > *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural > place is in a mini like Lubuntu... > > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool > professional tool... > > Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a powerful > statement about it's coolness. > > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are > dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and DVD+RW > that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find > CD-R's, if you're lucky. > > What do you think? > > Regards, Pjotr. > > -- > xubuntu-devel mailing list > <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> > <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel</a> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <<a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/attachments/20121129/c4c7387a/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/attachments/20121129/c4c7387a/attachment-0001.html</a>> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 09:46:01 -0500 From: Sean Davis <<a href="mailto:smd.seandavis@gmail.com" target="_blank">smd.seandavis@gmail.com</a>> To: <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 Message-ID: <CACWZUoaCiVDzV9HX5YvzfX=<a href="mailto:v3QwWXPwMWQFyJqV3zaasuBbWzw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">v3QwWXPwMWQFyJqV3zaasuBbWzw@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Good day, My thoughts... :-) On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 7:00 AM, <<a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel-request@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a>>wrote: > Hello, > > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish list > for Xubuntu 13.04 with you: > > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is > a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So > it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I > *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural > place is in a mini like Lubuntu... > As far as space concerns go, LibreOffice is a beast. At this point, it absolutely won't fit on the CD, and might pose problems for even larger image. Abiword and Gnumeric might not be the best at what they do, but they are sufficient for light word processing and spreadsheets. And since office applications are not really the heart of a distribution, I think it's best that we provide users some "good-enough" office applications and be well-rounded in other areas. > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool > professional tool... > Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a powerful > statement about it's coolness. > Synaptic and GDebi are poorly (if at all) maintained. Ubuntu is moving forward with the Ubuntu Software Center and fully supporting it. Additionally, the USC is the only place that users can access the pay-for applications, which are increasing as Ubuntu becomes more profitable to game developers and other software companies. And if we're already having space issues, I don't think we really don't need three applications that serve the same (or similar) purpose. > > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are > dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and DVD+RW > that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find > CD-R's, if you're lucky. > I agree that a CD format is probably not preferable in the long run. The Linux kernel, applications, libraries, toolkits, and localisations are growing in size. If we're having space issues now, I foresee having to drop even more stuff for future releases, and probably be further prohibited from actually adding anything new. Cheers, Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <<a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/attachments/20121129/4773b687/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/attachments/20121129/4773b687/attachment-0001.html</a>> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:00:21 -0300 From: Bruno Benitez <<a href="mailto:gridcube@gmail.com" target="_blank">gridcube@gmail.com</a>> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <<a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a>> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:CAKGTh9H4GhVJmn5a4NTfKD43muD_RbXM1TTaJ45Lv5ueanibZA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAKGTh9H4GhVJmn5a4NTfKD43muD_RbXM1TTaJ45Lv5ueanibZA@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think that the argument for keeping the iso size to less that 700MiB to provide a CD fittable size for older machines its not relevant, Xubuntu has already dropped the Alternate iso, and we foster the idea of using the mini iso to install xubuntu on older machines. I understand the problem with bigger size might be more packages to mantain and more complexity for the future, but there could be devised a way to mantain the packages count low, but allow to breath space for new versions and small changes that are needed. I don't agree to install LibreOffice by default though, even when it does have better print management than Abiword, because it would add lots of complexity to the ISO. -- Bruno.- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <<a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/attachments/20121129/1d69af2b/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/attachments/20121129/1d69af2b/attachment-0001.html</a>> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 10:55:02 -0500 From: Brian Smith <<a href="mailto:xubuntu-dev-list@nairb.us" target="_blank">xubuntu-dev-list@nairb.us</a>> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <<a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a>> Subject: Re: Could use some help on some 12.10 FAQ Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:50B78556.5060108@nairb.us" target="_blank">50B78556.5060108@nairb.us</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed for number 8 - the easiest is to move to the workspace you wish the application to start in, then start the application. once the application loads, you may move around your workspaces leaving that application loaded in the desired workspace. On 11/28/2012 08:08 PM, Jack Fromm wrote: > On 11/28/2012 04:42 PM, Elizabeth Krumbach wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> We're polishing up the last of the FAQ for 12.10 (better late than >> never!). Given our time zone distance I keep missing people on IRC and >> we could use some help with solutions & wording for the following >> questions: >> >> First #2 doesn't actually have a question, so we need the question >> regarding the messaging regression and our explanation as to why/what >> happened: >> >> 2. (regressions [messaging-menu]) >> >> And our Best Practice answers to these: >> >> 3. I don?t see my sound indicator anymore, how do I get it back? >> >> 8. How do you start a specific application in specific workspace? >> >> Thanks all. >> > For number 3, how about the following: > Right-click on a blank area of the panel and select Panel->Add New > Items. Find the Indicator Plugin in the list, select it and click the > Add button. > ------------------------------ -- xubuntu-devel mailing list <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel</a> End of xubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 86, Issue 7 ******************************************** </blockquote></div> </div>