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Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:cedaa6d21001011030v66a8c320t3777845cb1368cef@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Hello,<br>
<br>
Sorry for taking so long to reply. I've been thinking quite a bit about
this and have been waiting for the appropriate time to jump in.<br>
<br>
<b>General gist</b>: I think a council *could* be good for Xubuntu.
However, its membership should be limited to 3 people due to the small
size of our community (if we can't find consensus now, putting us all
on a council isn't going to give us consensus either); it can grow
later as necessary. Ultimately, this change should be mostly a
transparent one and not a harbinger of great change or divergence from
the Ubuntu community and processes. In fact, I feel this change should
instead aim to bring greater consistency, stability, and most
importantly longevity to our project.<br>
</blockquote>
I must disagree with this, although I see the point of only having 3
members. From our experiences from the two last releases, my feeling is
that the problem hasn't been finding consensus.<br>
<br>
The problem has been, as I see it (and I hate to bring this up again),
that the one-leader approach has given problems on (mostly artwork)
issues when you and I have disagreed. We have fortunately always found
a compromise, but I really feel that I should have had the power to
decide (against you), especially the rest of the developer community
agreed with me. Just as I think Lionel should make any decisions on
technical side or Jim on the documentation team, even if the leader or
a single developer disagreed.<br>
<br>
The advantage with a bigger council, I think, is that it really
involves people more. If we only choose three members to the council,
the rest are unheard and the council can just overrule their thoughts.
If they participate in the council, they have a better chance to be
heard.<br>
<br>
I understand that a complete consensus (and pleasing everyone) might
not be something we can achieve with 3+ members (either), but it really
gives me a more community-based feeling. And in the end, I'm only
proposing 4 members, and there's not really a decent way of determining
which team (leader) should not be in the council. If you have an idea
which team/who should NOT be in the council, please point your finger
on the team.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:cedaa6d21001011030v66a8c320t3777845cb1368cef@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Pasi
Lallinaho <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:open@knome.fi">open@knome.fi</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<div class="im">Jim Campbell wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:46 AM, Pasi
Lallinaho <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:open@knome.fi" target="_blank">open@knome.fi</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Now,
where did this discussion go?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
It appears as though it went on vacation. It has to come back to
work eventually, though!<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
People seemed to like the council-type approach; what's next? </blockquote>
<div><br>
I think it would be a good idea to revisit the document that Cody put
together and see how it would need to be modified to suit a
council-type approach. I can give this a try. I'll let the group
know if I have questions as I put things together.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Yeah, this sounds good. Maybe we should also briefly revise the
general direction stuff and make any modifications to those as well
if we feel they need to be changed.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
Agreed. The document is indeed in need of an update.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Anybody<br>
has obejctions? Should we first propose this to the Community Council<br>
(or some place else) or just take the new governance into use? </blockquote>
<div><br>
Once that is done, I think we should have a meeting to approve it.
We could at least have that as an agenda item for our meeting (which
we need to have anyway). I think that there is a general consensus
around this for now, but we should formalize it.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>I share this feeling of consensus. Whats left to do is to
determine if we're truly ready for this step and to what degree.<br>
<br>
Once we formalize our intent as a community to move in this direction,
we will need to go before the community council to have our updated
strategy document ratified. <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Cody,
can<br>
you be our link to the other councils or whatever, as you seem to know<br>
them best?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
If we all approve of the change as a group, I think we could forward
it on to the council so that they know what we're doing, but I am not
so sure it would require their seal of approval. As long as we are
comfortable with what we're doing, I think the community council
would be ok with it. Ultimately, I don't think it will make a huge
difference in how we operate as long as things get done.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
I could think so as well, but you never know... :)</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
We are a Ubuntu project and to be fully recognized as a council with
delegated authority from the community council we will require the
community council's approval. However, thats the easy part. Coming up
with a structure that will ultimately provide healthy leadership and
have any sort of longevity will require careful planning and discussion
between key stakeholders first.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I'm not completely sure what/who you mean with "key stakeholders", but
during the change to a (seemingly) different governance, everybody's
opinion should weigh equally.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:cedaa6d21001011030v66a8c320t3777845cb1368cef@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">What's
the situation with the technical team leadership? Cody, Lionel?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
I think we still need to address this.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Definitely!</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
The intention of the community leadership page was to give
recognizability to the individuals who have organically grown into
different leadership roles within the Xubuntu community. Its the person
and not the title that permits these individuals to influence the
project in the ways that they do. If anything, Lionel has only been
increasingly more and more involved with the technical direction and
operations of Xubuntu and so IMHO is the tech lead for Xubuntu
regardless if we says so or not :-). <br>
<br>
If Lionel wishes to continue in this capacity, he is more than welcome
to recognized as such IMHO. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
++<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:cedaa6d21001011030v66a8c320t3777845cb1368cef@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">What's
the situation with Michael? Can we remove Joszef's name from the<br>
leaders list - he's still not appeared from the mist.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
I don't know what the situation is with Michael. As for Joszef, I am
of the opinion that we could remove his name from the leaders list.
If he wanted to come back and contribute more, he would be welcome to
do so.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Okay. Let's do this parallel to the next meeting. Maybe we should
also remove Michael from the leaders list or at least put his name on
parenthesis if he doesn't show up in the meeting or before it?</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
Joszef has made his intentions clear that he has left Xubuntu for other
endeavors.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I've removed Joszef from the team leaders wikipage.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:cedaa6d21001011030v66a8c320t3777845cb1368cef@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
Michael should be contacted to gauge his interest.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<div class="im">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">To
make Lucid be as good and stable as possible, I think we also
should<br>
have a developer meeting soonish. If we can get the governance things<br>
sorted before or while the meeting, GREAT!<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
I agree! I've put together a doodle poll to check everyone's
availability for a team meeting. Please record what times will work
for you using the link below. Hopefully the times will work for
people, but I can set up new times if I've picked times that don't
work for your corner of the world. Keep in mind that this will be
the best Xubuntu team meeting ever.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.doodle.com/6stt9n2q7t9467q5" target="_blank">http://www.doodle.com/6stt9n2q7t9467q5</a><br>
<br>
Jim<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Voted. :) <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">What I gathered from this
mail we need to cover at least the
following topics (read: AGENDA):<br>
<br>
1) Review the Xubuntu strategy document<br>
- Modify to suit the council-type approach (Jim will look into this
before the meeting)<br>
- Briefly revise the overall strategy and modify if needed<br>
<br>
2) Approve (and forward) the new Xubuntu governancy<br>
- See 1), will need to have the final form ready in the document so
we can approve it!<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
I don't think we'll be able to come to a final draft ready to begin the
ratification process after just one meeting. However, I'm sure we'll be
able to make good progress.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Agreed. We can just push the agenda item into the next meeting as well.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:cedaa6d21001011030v66a8c320t3777845cb1368cef@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br>
Its important that whatever we come up with conforms to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation</a>
or a really good reason why it shouldn't.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">3) Review the leaders list<br>
<br>
4) Other topics<br>
- Artwork for Lucid (Shimmer/polish Albatross)?<br>
- Default applications for Lucid?<br>
- [Insert your "other topic" here]</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
Happy New Years!<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br clear="all">
</div>
</div>
<br>
-- <br>
Cody A.W. Somerville<br>
Software Systems Release Engineer<br>
Foundations Team<br>
Custom Engineering Solutions Group<br>
Canonical OEM Services<br>
Phone: +1-781-850-2087<br>
Cell: +1-613-401-5141<br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cody.somerville@canonical.com">cody.somerville@canonical.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
Happy 2010.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Pasi Lallinaho
Xubuntu Marketing Lead
Web-designer, graphic artist
IRC: knome @ freenode
</pre>
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