Hello Everyone,  It is evident to me that this discussion has degraded from the discussion of technical merits of the applications seeded to something much more emotionally charged. Before you make your next reply, I'd ask that everyone take a deep breath and focus on the issue at hand - the current seeds. If there is an issue with the Xubuntu development model, vision, philosophies, etc. then we need to discuss those in a seperate threads to allow us to articulately and effectively discuss each issue. In the mean time, can Lionel, Jani, Gauvain (the three core-devs most involved in Xubuntu at this time) agree to abstain from modifying the seeds further besides resolving our ISO build issues until a consensus is agreed upon by the team (and yes, this includes Jani in my humble opinion). This isn't the time in the development cycle to be making big changes to our application selection as the release is only a few short months away. Considering that we only got one test report for Alpha 4, demonstrating the lack of testing Xubuntu receives, I encourage us to be conservative in our changes that deviate from what we know to be stable and reliable (either we decide that to be the seeds prior to Jani's reversal or post). Unfortunately some of us are going to have to bite our tongues this release as I don't see us resolving certain conflicts before the release is made. Please remember: Development needs to occur concurrently with those discussions. This is only a project. I do not believe there is a need for anyone to get angry or start throwing around emotionally charged statements. This is a LTS and we need to pull together to make that happen. As for my opinion, I think I need more time to weigh both sides. However, saying Xubuntu is almost as bloated/slow as Ubuntu now is pure ludicrous. Thanks, Cody A.W. Somerville <div class="gmail_quote"> On Feb 5, 2008 1:50 PM, Jérôme Guelfucci <<a href="mailto:jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com">jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Jani: <div class="Ih2E3d"> " And if you want to know you only run Xfce stuff, even though it is kinda missing features and has no measurable benefits performance wise you use a pure Xubuntu, put together by GNOME haters with total disregard to reason." </div>Again the same very constructive argument, I've always used Gnome on one of my computers and will always. But Xubuntu != Gnome, Xubuntu is here to ship XFCE. <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"> On Feb 5, 2008 6:49 PM, Jérôme Guelfucci <<a href="mailto:jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com">jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com</a>> wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2008 6:47 PM, Lionel Le Folgoc <<a href="mailto:mrpouit@ubuntu.com">mrpouit@ubuntu.com</a>> wrote: > > Jani Monoses a écrit : > > > projects are supposed to work. Xubuntu is not a pet project of anyone, > > > > Then please explain why you are acting as if it is yours... > > > > > > -- > > Lionel Le Folgoc - <a href="https://launchpad.net/%7Emrpouit" target="_blank">https://launchpad.net/~mrpouit</a> > > EEBA 555E 0CDE 92BB 3AF4  4AB3 45A0 357B 5179 5910 > > > > > > -- > > xubuntu-devel mailing list > > <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> > > <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel</a> > > > -- xubuntu-devel mailing list <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel</a> </div></div></blockquote></div> -- Cody A.W. Somerville