<div>Hi all,</div> <div> </div> <div>This brings up a good point.  Regardless of technical merit of these particular decisions, I was unaware of them (well, I figured out the xscreensaver switch on my own), and might not have caught all of these changes . . .  Thus I wouldn't have been able to include them in the documentation.  The people who work on documentation can't correctly document the features of Xubuntu if we don't know that they've changed.  For that one reason it's good to bring these changes out to the ML.</div> <div> </div> <div>I do appreciate the large amount of work that a small handful of people are doing to package and prepare Xubuntu.  You are doing great work.  These notifications would help with the documentation, though.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for your consideration,</div> <div> </div> <div>Jim  </div> <div>On 1/31/08, Jérôme Guelfucci <<a href="mailto:jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com">jerome.guelfucci@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Well, the changes I remind: - gnome-screensaver -> xscreensaver: doesn't make much difference - file-roller -> squeeze: squeeze is fast, light, seems to have most features needed for an archive manager. It's stable, upstream answers quickly to bug reports and features requests. There is a crasher In Hardy (doesn't happen in Gutsy with the same version) but work is in progress to fix it. - gthumb/or whatever was before -> ristretto: ristretto is fast, light and stable, same maintainer as squeeze and same postive feedback. - gnome-mount -> exo-mount: we just loose one feature, encrypted partitions, but it's not really a key feature. This change makes it relally easy to follow debian and upstream changes. - totem -> * : this hasn't been decided yet, maybe mplayer-gtk or keep gnome. I've a P2 450MHz and I can tell you I really feel the difference on disk usage, memory and cpu usage ! The last annoying application is Firefox 2 but Firefox 3 should be released on time and should be really better. On Jan 31, 2008 6:04 PM, Jani Monoses <<a href="mailto:jani@ubuntu.com">jani@ubuntu.com</a>> wrote: > Jérôme Guelfucci wrote: > > I know I've not been very diplomatic. Well the point is that this > > mailing list DOESN'T represent the Xubuntu community. The decisions > > that were taken during the Gutsy development cycle were validated > > because you and two or three members of the mailing list wanted this, > > this is at least how I feel it. > > We had discussions but none of the views opposing the inclusion of Gnome > apps were fundamented, besides the vague 'it's ligher' argument and most > of the replies were clearly emotional. > > > > > On the Ubuntu French Forums, the feedbacks I had is that people are > > using Xubuntu because it's light, it's a godd alternative to Gnome, > > BUT many of them were disappointed because Xubuntu 7.10 is tto heavy > > and moved to things like Fluxbuntu, or removed the xubuntu-desktop > > package to keep xfce only stuff, and choose apps they wanted. > > All changes have been in the default install but in the recommends > section so noone should have removed xubuntu-meta, all the extra gnome > apps cand be removed and swicthed if the more advanced users wish so. > > I am pretty convinced that the ones who were vocal on the fora and > disappointed were the armchair critics who do not look much into an > issue before blogging or voicing their dissapointment. Like with the > recent reactions to 'Canonical dropping support for Xubuntu'. > > > > > > Now that we moved to Universe, we have the opportunity to build a > > Xubuntu identity, to have our own applications easily, without filing > > MIR all the time. I think it's unfair to say that those applications > > That is the great advantage of being in universe and I am glad for this, > filing MIR was an annoyance. However it does not mean the floodgates are > open to anything that is now in universe without regard to user > friendliness and robustness. > > > are unmaintained (xfmedia will be removed soon :) ), and buggy, they > > seem to work fine for most users. We have backported a lot of stuff to > > our ppa, XFCE 4.4.2, squeeze, ristretto, and we received very positive > > feedback from the community. > > > I appreciate your work, it's just that it has to happen in public. > Please do not mix Xfce 4.4.2 into this I did not say anything about it > But the apps that I one-by-one picked and the merits of which I > defended during gutsy are a separate problem. > > > > > I recognize it could have been announced on the mailing list or on > > IRC, but the few time I've spent on this list shows me that most of > > those posts become ~ a XFCE/GNOME flamewar. > > No that is not a reason to avoid it. It does not create a good > precedent. It is only flamewar if the focus is not on techincal, > maintenance and user merits but on GNOME vs Xfce. In which case those > who can only contribute to the latter topics are gently asked to stay > out of the discussion and we can keep it civilized. > > Please justify the switch to each of the apps as I did last cycle, > taking into accound maintenance - upstream and withing ubuntu, > usability, stability/maturity and performance. > > thanks > > Jani > > > -- > xubuntu-devel mailing list > <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> > <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel</a> > -- xubuntu-devel mailing list <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel</a> </blockquote></div>