Wow. It has certainly been very interesting to read this thread; I'm happy to see some of the key issues that plague us being highlighted. However, I'm sad to realize that this has most likely been the most productive ml thread on xubuntu-devel in sometime. What is even more disappointing for me is the self-realization that a number of the these issues are my fault. I feel like I came in, created a buzz, and although I couldn't control the circumstances, I was unable to carry things through. I can't help but feel like I could have made it easier for others to get involved by writing documentation/tutorials on the wiki while I was in a position to do so. Community is viral and, if properly guided, can bloom into something amazing - evident with a large number of successful OSS projects. With the Xubuntu community, it has grown but simply not flourished like it could. A big, big thanks to people like Jim Campbell, Freddy Martinez, Vincent & Adam, and other friends who have made visible, and powerful strides within our community. How can we fix this? Well, Ubuntu already has tons of documentation on how to get involved. A lot of people aren't aware that these documents are wonderful resources for getting involved with Xubuntu and other people want documentations that shows them how they can get involved with Xubuntu specifically (though everyone should remember that helping Ubuntu helps Xubuntu - directly or indirectly). Using the existing documentation, I believe we can easily meld the gap and make something available to individuals interested in getting involved with the technical sides of Xubuntu. When people say "How do I help Xubuntu?" or maybe something more specific like "How do I help Xubuntu by bug triaging?", we can provide easy to remember and share links that feature very usable documentation that smartly links and makes use of existing flavor in-specific documentation. -- This being said, there will ALWAYS be people who want to help out but never end up making good on that desire. Another thing I've noticed (and I fall into the same trap) is that people want to develop software for Xubuntu. Developing Xubuntu is, as Jani describes, more the managing dependencies and integrating the packages to provide a stellar desktop experience than the developing of "single"/individual applications. That is not to say that there is not the need for people who are skilled coders to apply glue. Kudos to Jani and Lionel for their amazing work - without them, Xubuntu simply wouldn't be. Finally, it seems emotions are getting high. Those of us with emotions running high should take a deep breath. Developing hard feelings and breeding mistrust is not on the path to success. We're all here to help develop Xubuntu :) With all this said, I'm still not in a position to be regularly active like I used to be (though I hope to be in the fall - fingers crossed). However, it has always been evident to me that when people get involved and act other people get involved and act too. Keeping this in mind, I'm going to try to do more, visible, work - particularly things that I can work on offline/lack of computer and then upload when I get a chance. I encourage everyone that is eager to get involved to make it a pledge to get _actively_ involved with this week. I promise you that once you get started, it is easy as pie! :) Plus there are tons of resources to help you get started - the website, the wiki, and IRC. Got Xubuntu? Thanks, Cody A.W. Somerville P.S. Make sure to pass out lots of hugs! <div>On 8/10/07, Lionel Le Folgoc <<a href="mailto:mrpouit@ubuntu.com"> mrpouit@ubuntu.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hi, Giuseppe Torelli wrote: > On 8/9/07, Jani Monoses < <a href="mailto:jani.monoses@gmail.com">jani.monoses@gmail.com</a>> wrote: >> <a href="http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20070808/gutsy-desktop-i386.manifest">http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20070808/gutsy-desktop-i386.manifest </a> > > Please let me understand. Did you include gnome dependencies in the > next Xubuntu Gutsy? > They came automagically because evince-gtk depends on them, and this since the beginning of Gutsy release cycle. I don't remember seeing anybody yelling about that, so it seems gnome dependencies are not a pain to many people.. or it means that nobody downloaded and tested the several Tribes live-cd (btw, that's not very cool for Jim and Freddy who ask for testing and try to write release notes). In both cases, we may have a problem: IMO, this ML(our meetings) is(are) a waste of time. Many people express their opinion, write specifications, tell other people what they should do, but do nothing... and finally, less than 10 people are doing something, packaging, coding, testing, trying to make the best release, and other people are always putting on the table the same topic (sylpheed or thunderbird, how great!). I don't think xubuntu lack a community, it only lacks active people... For example, (almost) nobody does bug triaging for xubuntu. Don't you think this would help improving xubuntu and xfce if reported bugs were triaged and forwarded upstream? That's an example among many, it does not require technical skills, and it's often a good 'trigger' to become Ubuntu member and more involved in Ubuntu... Cheers, Lionel PS: please don't misinterpret me (and sorry for the sarcasms again), I am not blaming anyone, I am blaming us 'as a whole', and I am afraid we are going to the same point with the latest endless flamewar (gnome or not?)... -- xubuntu-devel mailing list <a href="mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com">xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel </a> </blockquote></div> -- Firefox (<a href="http://www.getfirefox.com">www.getfirefox.com</a>) -- A browser you can trust