About Xubuntu Artwork

Eero Tamminen oak at helsinkinet.fi
Sun Mar 25 10:38:39 UTC 2012


On lauantai 24 maaliskuu 2012, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:
> On 03/24/2012 08:22 PM, Ernesto Acosta wrote:
> > # About Applications
> > 
> > There are some applications which I think can be replaced with more
> > light and thus do not depend on Gnome.
> > 
> > Gcalctool can be replaced with Galculator
> > Evince can be replaced with ePDFView

Because Gcalctool & Evince already use Gtk3 while XFCE is still
using Gtk2 and you don't want to have two Gtk versions until XFCE
moves to Gtk3?

> > Ristretto has greatly improved but may be replaced by Mirage.

Mirage uses Python whereas Ristretto uses XFCE libraries.
Why do you think it to be lighter, and lighter in which way[1]?

> Is there some performance comparisons for these applications?

Based on the Xubuntu strategy document:

Performance is considered only after the other requirements
(integration and usability) have been met.

So, unless that has changed, first the new applications:
- stability / maturity
- XFCE desktop/file-manager/themeing integration
- localization coverage
- accessibility support (if package uses Gtk that should be fine)

Need to be compared to the old applications.

I found localization statistics for Ubuntu from here:

But it seems to be lacking data for the proposed applications
and for XFCE applications:
for pkg in epdfview evince gcalctool gcalculator mirage ristretto; do
awk -F '|' '
	count=0; total=0; max=0; min=99999;
/^'$pkg' / {
	count+=1; total+=$7; if($7>max) max=$7; if($7<min) min=$7;
	if (count)
		printf("'$pkg': %d translations\n- max %d, avg %d, min %d 
strings\n", count, max, total/count, min);
		printf("'$pkg': 0 translations\n");
}' $stats; done

As that produces:
epdfview: 0 translations
evince: 112 translations
- max 376, avg 281, min 1 strings
gcalctool: 107 translations
- max 433, avg 268, min 1 strings
gcalculator: 0 translations
mirage: 0 translations
ristoretto: 0 translations

When I looked more into this, gcalculator wasn't even in Ubuntu
repos, although it seems to be in Debian...

> The fact is that it is more work to replace than keep an application, so
> there needs to be good rationale to change an application. That being
> said, it is not completely unlikely that an application will be replaced
> by another application, as long as there is somebody to write
> comparisons, test the applications, willing to report bugs and follow-up
> on getting them fixed and eventually, taking all this into account when
> rationalizing the application change to the team.

[1] Way too often people just blindly look at package dependencies, which 
are already in Xubuntu and getting rid of them not helping performance,
memory or disk usage a bit.

And when measuring memory usage, people pointlessly look at the non-relevant
VmSize and RSS numbers from "top" when they should be looking at the private 
dirty + swap, private clean and PSS numbers from /proc/PID/smaps and also
X resource consumption.

gnome-system-monitor app shows most of these values.  "Memory" column
seems to be PSS (Proportional Set Size) and Writable column private
dirty and X resources usage is in X server memory column.

> > Xubuntu also includes too many language packs, you do not understand if
> > you end the LiveCD runs in English. Sure, I guess when you are
> > installing, and using another language, English and Spanish are not the
> > only ones on our planet, but I think there should be an option for you,
> > after installing, removal of unnecessary language as our preferences
> The idea behind this is to provide desktops in preferred languages even
> for those, who do not have access to internet.

And for them to be able to test the live-CD and to install Xubuntu in
the first place, it needs to be localized to the correct language.

Which means that they need to be present on the installation CD / DVD.

> As far as I know, no language packs should be left installed unless you
> selected them.

It should be.  However, note that language packs don't cover all of
the software, just the desktop stuff.

To get rid of all extra localization for all packages, one needs to install
"localepurge" package.  This provides an apt hook to remove extra languages
always after packaging setup has changed (= slows down package updates).

However, if one's running so low on disk space that he wants to use
localepurge, I would first recomment setting apt options that limit
the apt cache size:
	APT::Periodic::MaxAge (maybe also APT::Periodic::MinAge)

And installing most packages with apt --no-install-recommends option.

(Both localepurge and --no-install-recommends result in unsupported Debian
and Ubuntu configurations, so one should know something of packaging before
using them.)

	- Eero

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