New panel size
jozmak at gmail.com
Sat Nov 10 22:57:08 UTC 2007
On Nov 10, 2007 5:20 PM, Vincent <imnotb at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 2007 7:11 PM, Diego Ongaro <ongardie at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Before this gets out of hand, let me try to mediate. To summarize the
> > discussion so far:
> > - My suggestion was to not waste too much effort on something that
> > will be fixed in 4.6, namely panel sizing.
> > - Jelle's suggestion was that branding should happen in Xubuntu; any
> > other development should happen upstream, collaborating with Xfce.
> > - Jmak's response was that it is necessary make progress directly in
> > Xubuntu to meet users' demands and stay competitive.
> > I think there is something to be learned from all of this:
> > *I* posted above explaining panel sizing in 4.6. I know about that
> > because I idle in irc.freenode.net#xfce-dev and keep up with the Xfce
> > project that way. Regardless of whether or not Xubuntu takes my
> > suggestion to not waste effort on the matter of panel sizing, it is
> > important for everyone involved in that decision to consider
> > upstream's work and plans. Similarly, if Xubuntu were to want to put
> > effort into the matter, the panel developers upstream (Nick, Jasper)
> > would be the best people to ask for advice. They know the code
> > inside-out and can tell you what will work well and what won't,
> > without any research.
> > So, the lesson I ask you (Xubuntu) to take from this is: communicate
> > with upstream to learn about Xfce's plans and discuss Xubuntu's plans.
> > Both projects would benefit.
> > I've already suggested one way to communicate with upstream, their IRC
> > channel. You'll find that if you enter it (as Cody Somerville did
> > yesterday), you will not have voice (be allowed to send messages).
> > Even with this restriction, you will be able to learn about Xfce's
> > plans. It's the best place to hear what people are currently working
> > on. To discuss Xubuntu's plans, you should use the developer's mailing
> > list . It's also a good place to hear about longer-term plans and
> > discussions. Once you build up an identity and a bit of a reputation
> > with the Xfce developers, they will be willing to grant you voice in
> > their IRC channel (you might have to ask, though).
> > One final thing: you might find some anti-Xubuntu sentiment upstream.
> > From my observations, this can stem from two issues:
> > (1) Some upstream developers believe a distro should not substantially
> > modify packages
> > (2) Most upstream developers believe Xubuntu does not try to get its
> > patches into Xfce (upstream)
> > IMHO, you should deal with (1) by ignoring it. It goes against the
> > Ubuntu philosophy, so don't worry about it. It's also more of a naming
> > thing. They really mean Xubuntu isn't a "distro," since it does more
> > than distribute software.
> > You should deal with (2) by creating evidence to show that it's false.
> > For example, make your first post to the xfce-dev mailing list a
> > discussion of an existing Xubuntu-only patch that Xfce could benefit
> > from. You might be told to start a bug report; that's fine, everyone
> > on the mailing list still saw one more example of Xubuntu working to
> > get its patches into Xfce. Then follow through with it.
> > I think I've made it clear that more communication with Xfce
> > (upstream) is important and beneficial to Xubuntu. And I've explained
> > exactly how to do that, based on my experience. I hope I haven't
> > offended anyone in this email, and I hope to see more Xubuntu
> > representation on the Xfce communications channels.
> Thank you. That was very useful. I've been lingering about on some Xfce
> mailinglist (have to check if I'm subscribed to xfce4-dev though) but I
> never even thought about joining their IRC channel. Will do that :)
> > -Diego Ongaro
> >  http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev/
> On Nov 10, 2007 8:31 PM, jmak <jozmak at gmail.com> wrote:
> > When I started this discussion about xubuntu's look and feel, my
> > initial proposal was to go back to the original layout, because that
> > is how xfce was conceived at the first place. Do not force something
> > upon it that was not designed for. It is now obvious that xfce, at its
> > current state, cannot function properly as a gnome layout but pretty
> > well as a one at the bottom panel arrangement. If we go back to this,
> > all the problems discussed in the past couple of days will go away.
> > The solution is so simple.
> I really feel that you are letting your personal preference play way too big
> a role in this issue. Xfce's panels *where* designed to be able to be used
> the way Xubuntu uses them now. It is far from obvious to me why it cannot
> function properly in this layout. I *do* see why a dock-arrangement would be
> a source of trouble to new users ( i.e. they have to guess an application's
> function by its icon). I also don't see why upstream would want us to use
> that arrangement.
In fact, gnome is my favorite desktop environment. But gnome panels
are sophisticated and working. XFCE panels are not yet. The icons wont
scale properly, some stretching the panels, some have to much padding
around them, and so on, as it was explained by others in the previous
posts. AT the current state xfce is to crude to be considered as an
elegant solution for gnome like layout.
Why one wants to force a lame solution on something that is in other
instances work quite well. This is all I am saying. When 4.6 comes
out we still can go back to the gnome design and try it out. Even
gnome has various layouts, suse uses kde like panel, ubuntu and fedora
the original designs. So the world wont fold over us if we try out a
different design once.
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