xubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 6, Issue 16

rod smith dobey at rjs-custom.com
Sat Feb 11 01:22:47 UTC 2006 

For the older system, I am currently running xubuntu-dapper on an AMD-K6II
300 processor with 64MB RAM and am satisfied with the results, however I do
not use open office because it is to memory hungry for my tastes as well as
it is just to slow on my older system.

I use abiword and it does everything that I need wihich is just average
work.  I also agree that inkscape should be on the cd, not in the default
install.  I have only the basic apps that come with the xubuntu installation
and all is well. Most standard users do not require a huge office suite to
just right letters and the like, that is more towards the businesses.

And since ubuntu and kubuntu are there as a choice, I think that OOo should
not even be considered for inclusion, since it will be available through
apt-get/synaptic after the system is installed, allowing the end-user to
install it if they really need it.

just my $0.02, minus gst (hehe)



On 2/10/06, xubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com <
xubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Mini survey (j Mak)
>   2. Re: Mini survey (Ricardo Valfreixo)
>   3. Re: Mini survey (Jani Monoses)
>   4. Re: Office (Collins Richey)
>   5. Re: Xubuntu Graphics (Mauricio Hernandez Z.)
>   6. Re: Office (Michael Moore)
>   7. Re: Office (Colin McDermott)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: j Mak < joz_mak at yahoo.ca>
> To: xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:52:39 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Mini survey
>  Recently, I've converted my friend's 13 year old daughter to Linux
> because her windows got infected every one or two months with viruses and
> spy-ware. Now, she uses Ubuntu and happy because she can visit all the virus
> infected download sites without being afraid of getting viruses. But to make
> her satisfied I had to install a few additional programs like  Limewire,
> mplayer with the codecs and dvd libraries and F-Spot; now she can do the
> same things with Linux she got used to doing on the windows. This gave me a
> chance to learn about her and her friend's surfing and user habits, and
> helped me to figure what were the most important of programs teenagers
> couldn't live without.
>  - a messenger program like Gaim for chatting
> - a file exchange program like Limewire
> - a good music player
> - a video program, like mplayer
> - an image viewer that can retrieve images from cameras, like F-Spot
>  If xubuntu is intended for the average users rather than specialists, I
> think the default applications should reflect this. From this point of view
> the Gimp, Inkscape, Dia are not even necessary to be included in the
> default setup. Those who want to use xubuntu as a graphic platform can
> easily download and install them from the repositories. More important are
> the basic apps that mainstream users, with all probability, will use
> everyday, like the ones I mentioned above. Because if they cannot do things
> they want out of the box they get quickly frustrated.
>  J. Mak
>
> ------------------------------
> Find your next car at *Yahoo! Canada Autos* <http://autos.yahoo.ca>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ricardo Valfreixo <ricardo at valfreixo.com>
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion < xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:02:00 +0000
> Subject: Re: Mini survey
> Ok good point.
>
> i agree with that. I'm a web developer/coder and a content writer but
> this are my needs. i do agree that it is not the common needs. and i
> do have apt-get to solve all my probs. We can even put a copy/paste
> line on the wiki to turn xubuntu on a graphic station, office station,
> multimedia station, file sharing station, etc etc etc
>
> Vx
>
>
> On 2/10/06, j Mak <joz_mak at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Recently, I've converted my friend's 13 year old daughter to Linux
> because
> > her windows got infected every one or two months with viruses and
> spy-ware.
> > Now, she uses Ubuntu and happy because she can visit all the virus
> infected
> > download sites without being afraid of getting viruses. But to make her
> > satisfied I had to install a few additional programs like  Limewire,
> mplayer
> > with the codecs and dvd libraries and F-Spot; now she can do the same
> things
> > with Linux she got used to doing on the windows. This gave me a chance
> to
> > learn about her and her friend's surfing and user habits, and helped me
> to
> > figure what were the most important of programs teenagers couldn't live
> > without.
> >
> >
> > - a messenger program like Gaim for chatting
> > - a file exchange program like Limewire
> > - a good music player
> > - a video program, like mplayer
> > - an image viewer that can retrieve images from cameras, like F-Spot
> >
> > If xubuntu is intended for the average users rather than specialists, I
> > think the default applications should reflect this. From this point of
> view
> > the Gimp, Inkscape, Dia are not even necessary to be included in the
> default
> > setup. Those who want to use xubuntu as a graphic platform can easily
> > download and install them from the repositories. More important are the
> > basic apps that mainstream users, with all probability, will use
> everyday,
> > like the ones I mentioned above. Because if they cannot do things they
> want
> > out of the box they get quickly frustrated.
> >
> >  J. Mak
> >
> >  ________________________________
> > Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
> >
> >
> > --
> > xubuntu-devel mailing list
> > xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jani Monoses <jani.monoses at gmail.com >
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:49:38 +0200
> Subject: Re: Mini survey
>
> On 2/10/06, j Mak <joz_mak at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> >  Recently, I've converted my friend's 13 year old daughter to Linux
> > because her windows got infected every one or two months with viruses and
> > spy-ware. Now, she uses Ubuntu and happy because she can visit all the virus
> > infected download sites without being afraid of getting viruses. But to make
> > her satisfied I had to install a few additional programs like  Limewire,
> > mplayer with the codecs and dvd libraries and F-Spot; now she can do the
> > same things with Linux she got used to doing on the windows. This gave me a
> > chance to learn about her and her friend's surfing and user habits, and
> > helped me to figure what were the most important of programs teenagers
> > couldn't live without.
> >  - a messenger program like Gaim for chatting
> > - a file exchange program like Limewire
> > - a good music player
> > - a video program, like mplayer
> > - an image viewer that can retrieve images from cameras, like F-Spot
> >  If xubuntu is intended for the average users rather than specialists, I
> > think the default applications should reflect this. From this point of view
> > the Gimp, Inkscape, Dia are not even
> >
>
> Right, it is definitley intended for average users so the programs you
> mention would be nice if we had low resource and nice alternatives (I bet
> f-spot is not low resource)
> but we do not compete with ubuntu/kubuntu as they're in a far better
> position to provide the average users with  ms-windows like niceness.
> For instance the good music/video player points are not as much technical
> as license/patenting related, this is why unfortunatley even ubuntu can't
> play things the average user would want out of the box.So whether we put
> gxine/xfmedia/mplayer as default is not as important as the plugins we
> include. With no mp3 and many common video formats unavailable
> the app does not matter that much.
> But I am sure we can have both inskcape/dia and home user apps along on
> the CD they do not exclude each other, the only blocking criteria are
> availability and those written in the wiki.
>
> Jani
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Collins Richey <crichey at gmail.com>
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion < xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 23:22:19 +0000
> Subject: Re: Office
> On 2/10/06, Jani Monoses < jani.monoses at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2/10/06, christooss <christooss at ubuntu.si> wrote:
> > > Hello
> > >
> > > Which application does xubuntu use for Office stuff. In excange to OOo
> > > Impres, Calc, Writer?
> > >
> >
> > Right now only abiword is included, and possibly gnumeric will. No
> > presentation app though.
> >
>
> I understand the need to stick with apps that perform well on older
> machines, but OpenOffice is the cross-platform standard these days,
> and I think it should be included with any install even though it will
> be slow on older machines.
>
> Just $.02.
>
> --
> Collins Richey
>      Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code ... If you write
>      the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not
>      smart enough to debug it.
>             -Brian Kernighan
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Mauricio Hernandez Z." <mhz.chile at gmail.com >
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:30:24 -0300
> Subject: Re: Xubuntu Graphics
>
> > Resource-wise, I don't think it is any worse than Gimp. Agree on the
> > vector part. The only thing is: Most people don't do vector graphics,
> > and so Inkscape may take up room where a more-used package could go.
> >
>
> <SNIP>
>
> Yeah, I understand Inkscape may not be aimed to 'most people' but on the
> other hand, including will give chances for these people to get to know
> it and use it. Including such powerful apps. will also give us
> advantages considering we have more space than GNOME or KDE based CD's.
>
> What I mean is:
>
> We ship apps that are powerful, high end, and some of them represent
> clear equivalents to M$ apps. users are used to see, use or even
> ilegally use, only this time these are free as in freedom and can also
> be installed in old hardware.
>
> --
> Cordialmente,
>
> Mauricio Hernandez Z.
> (56+8)7496071
> (56+2)3129513
>
> www.ubuntu-cl.org
> www.edubuntu.org
> irc.freenode.net | #edubuntu #edubuntu-es
>
> www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile
>
> [I dream of things that never were and say 'Why Not?']
>
> ID #287183
> http://counter.li.org
>
> /!\ Mail escrito sin caracteres especiales para evitar
> conflictos de lectura con otros lectores de correos.
>
>
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>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Michael Moore <stuporglue at gmail.com>
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion < xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:38:47 -0700
> Subject: Re: Office
> > I understand the need to stick with apps that perform well on older
> > machines, but OpenOffice is the cross-platform standard these days,
> > and I think it should be included with any install even though it will
> > be slow on older machines.
> >
> > Just $.02.
>
> Have you used OO.o on an old machine? If so, what was your experience,
> and how old was the machine? On PIs, I find that programs like Firefox
> are barely usable, and I know OO.o uses a lot more memory than
> Firefox.
>
> Note that it's not as much a processor speed issue, but rather how
> much memory they use and how slow old disks are when you start
> swapping halfway through the program startup.
>
> While I would consider OO.o to be part of a good distro for modern
> machines, if PIs are prevalant in Xubuntu's target audience, I don't
> think it's inclusion by default would be a good idea.
>
> --
> Michael Moore
> -------------------------------
> www.stuporglue.org -- Donate your used computer to a student that needs
> it.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Colin McDermott <colmcd at optusnet.com.au>
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com >
> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 12:10:10 +1100
> Subject: Re: Office
> Michael Moore wrote:
> >> I understand the need to stick with apps that perform well on older
> >> machines, but OpenOffice is the cross-platform standard these days,
> >> and I think it should be included with any install even though it will
> >> be slow on older machines.
> >>
> >> Just $.02.
> >>
> >
> > Have you used OO.o on an old machine? If so, what was your experience,
> > and how old was the machine? On PIs, I find that programs like Firefox
> > are barely usable, and I know OO.o uses a lot more memory than
> > Firefox.
> >
> I have. Just to note I sincerely doubt that Xubuntu will be able to run
> on a p1 espeshilly if it has an average amount of ram (ie 32mb). I doubt
> that it will perform well at all on a 64mb machine (more then happy to
> be corrected on this). I have found that Ram is the determinate of speed
> and not the processor. Also I have found that to get a p2 300mhz
> processor is allot easier then getting say 64 or 128mb of ram.
>
>
> > Note that it's not as much a processor speed issue, but rather how
> > much memory they use and how slow old disks are when you start
> > swapping halfway through the program startup.
> >
>
> I agree memory is the big issue. Namely Openoffice takes forever to
> start. I have seen it take up to 5 minutes on an older system (running
> ubuntulite). I did other tests using ubuntu lite (which is icewm based.)
> I found that once loaded performance was useable.
>
> 64mb of memory. 3 minutes to load (1 with preloading).
>
> 128mb of memory 1 minute to load (14 seconds with preloading).
>
> (all tests done on a ibm 300mhz pii).
>
> So with Xubuntu it would probably be a slower loading experince.
> > While I would consider OO.o to be part of a good distro for modern
> > machines, if PIs are prevalant in Xubuntu's target audience, I don't
> > think it's inclusion by default would be a good idea.
> >
> Personally I think that it should be like inkscape. On the CD but not
> installed by default (or comes with a prompt during installation).
> > --
> > Michael Moore
> > -------------------------------
> > www.stuporglue.org -- Donate your used computer to a student that needs
> it.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Colin McDermott
> Reboot Computer Reuse centre
> Ubuntu Lite
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/ubuntu_lite
>
> BTW by run I mean run at a slow but useable level.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
>
>
>
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