Clarification on upstart-0.5 and dbus usage

Marcel Holtmann marcel at
Thu Jun 19 02:29:31 BST 2008

Hi Sarvi,

> >> But that said, D-Bus is a fine choice for now. I hope though, the 
> >> Upstart community is open to code contributions from us that 
> >allow for 
> >> modular alternatives to D-Bus. Ofcourse without compromising on 
> >> performance or clean code.
> >
> >I think that Scott and I explained that this would only 
> >increase complexity inside Upstart and that this makes 
> >basically no sense. We don't need support for two IPC 
> >mechanism. We use D-Bus.
> >
> >And if D-Bus looks like such a problem to you, then even 
> >Upstart might not be the right solution for you.
> Sarvi> Are you implying that if my team was willing to put the effort
> into making Upstart more suitable for Embedded systems as well, that it
> would be contradictory to the direction/goals of Upstart. Is the
> intention of Upstart only big heavy Workstations.  Note that LaunchD the
> Apple equivalent of Upstart runs on the iPhone as well, and I don't see
> why Upstart needs to aim any lower.
> To tie the destiny of Upstart to D-Bus does not seem to be in the best
> interest of Upstart.

it actually is and I have made that point already. So has Scott. If you
wanna put effort into adding an extra IPC layer and thus also an IPC
abstraction into Upstart, you gonna bloat Upstart and make it only more
complex. This is not helping. It is really not.

I had all these discussion before and have heard it all, but start
looking into D-Bus and start using it. Don't waste time and resources
into adding something to Upstart. Use the manpower to make D-Bus better
and more suitable for embedded if that is needed. Personally, I don't
see that since systems like Maemo, OpenMoko, Android, ALP and many more
are using D-Bus successfully in its current form.

For some reason everybody thinks that D-Bus is bloated, but it is not.
The low-level part is a well defined communication protocol and a
message bus. It is not CORBA or some crazy stuff like DCOP or something.
It is small and well suited for embedded.

Nobody is stopping you from trying to add another IPC to Upstart, but
the success of this idea is really questionable and once you use D-Bus
for any second component in your system, this effort becomes useless and
it bloats your system. So trust me when we all say that you should
accept D-Bus as way of talking to Upstart and roll with it. You will see
the benefits really quickly.



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