Either way, i agree with what Neil said, everyone has an opinion, fair enough, but i do believe that more people will need to get involved if open source will ever have a chance in zimbabwe. Open source is about education.... end of the day. I can run an ubuntu/kubuntu desktop 100% perfectly...because i know how a computer works, and of how everything fits together. Fair enough, some people cant be bothered about this, so congratulations, rest assured that microsoft have exploited your stupidity to make them billions of dollars. :) hahahahahhaha! In terms of software developers and other specialist desktop uses, well, that is a different story, and i believe in the next 3 years, when we look back on this conversation, we will see how far open source has come. remember, ubuntu has a release every 6 months, windows, every 4 years. that is 8 releases... before the next windows version. most people see this as situation where open source will always chase closed source, but what if MS drop the ball again like they did with vista? they will have to work damn hard to get their next release up to scratch. for those people out there who imagine that windows 7 will be easy to pirate, well believe me it wont, put it this way, windows vista, as yet still hasnt got a 100% working crack. that is 3 years after the official release. MS are not going to give in to piracy.... this is all about the $$$ now... especially with the whole global economy falling on itself.... every cent counts.... This is where OSS will get an advantage.... Guys, open source licensing agreements clearly state, that if you feel you can improve on something that is already there, then go ahead and do so, you will be given full credit for it. You will however not get and money back for it. the people out there maintaining the current ubuntu packages are actually a few people doing a really really good job. most of these people have day jobs, and will go home and work on bugs etc etc, because its for a good cause. if any of you have had a glimpse at the new kde 2.2... you will be very suprised i promise you! that is the power open source in its purest form. . intelligence boils down to how you use whatever resources are available to you at any given time. if everytime, you have to upgrade to a new windows version when you buy a new computer or have a virus, well intelligence speaks for itself. <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Neil <<a href="mailto:neil.coetzer@nationalit.co.zw">neil.coetzer@nationalit.co.zw</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Simpson, Granted, setting up dialup is still painful on Ubuntu most of the time. As far as any development tools that require Windows, my personal preference is to run Windows within a virtual environment on top of Ubuntu. At the end of the day for many of us, it's about stability and security. Having to reboot a Windows machine twice a day is not for me. However as you said, it's not for everyone and other people's opinions do have to be respected. However, since this is an Ubuntu mailing list and not a Windows mailing list, I think we can get away with being a little biased ;) Neil <div class="im"> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com</a> </div><div><div></div><div class="h5">[mailto:<a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw-bounces@lists.ubuntu.com</a>] On Behalf Of Simpson Moyo Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:48 AM To: nyasha chihanga Cc: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Subject: Re: Thoughts on OSS ZW Simpson, I totally agree with Nyasha. I have a linux server for my home network that runs ubuntu 8.10. It is my file server, domain controller, and develoment server. And it works great... i wouldnt change that setup even if microsft server 2008 went open source.. :). But on the other hand... an ubuntu DESKTOP is not very practical for most people. You need to take into consideration that not everyone has an IT background. Good examples... Case 1: My sister is a writer and i setup ubuntu on her laptop... N.B. This is a person that just uses Microsoft Word and IE... Nothing else... Anyway... back to the story.. I setup ubuntu on her laptop... and she dials up from home... and it is not easy to setup a dialup connection on ubuntu for a non technical user... She had to come back to harare with the laptop so i setup a dialup for her and even i had to google a solution... She eventually went back to XP. Case 2: I installed ubuntu on my laptop and wanted to use it as my primary development OS... It was a total pain.... It took upto 2 weeks to get it to work the way i wanted. and even then some of the tools there were not as good as the windows tools... For the sake of productivity i had to revert back to windows... So in short what i am trying to say is this. I dont think Windows is better than Linux... Nor do i think Linux is better than Windows... I think that when one wants to install an OS they need to look at what they want to be using it for and if it will be practical to use in that environment/setup. We need to be open minded. Lets not let our ignorance blind us. There are many areas where windows slam dunks linux hands down! same applies to Linux... There are also many areas where windows has nothing on linux... We are intelligent individuals... Lets lets look at things objectively... linux is not for everyone and everyhing nor is windows for everyone and everything... thats why none of them have 100% market share. My $0.02 Simpson Moyo On 4/8/09, nyasha chihanga <<a href="mailto:rgchihanga@hotmail.com">rgchihanga@hotmail.com</a>> wrote: > > > > How are you everyone > > > > This is an interesting topic i thought i will reply to. The question > we should ask ourselves is that; if a student sleeps in class during a > lesson, who is at fault? The tutor or the student? > > I think the tutor is at fault because the lesson they are giving is > not relevant to the student's current position and if it is, then > tutor is not making it interesting enough to keep the student awake. > This is how it applies to all of us who think linux is the best > operating when you want to argue or propose linux as the best option > give relevant solutions that can overcome the current problems a user > is having with VISTA as the competitor this should not pose a big > problem. This can be extended to enterprise problem's for larger > companies give them solutions to their problems not what platform they > should be running on because it is better they really do not want to > hear all about that, they do not mind how you implement the solution, > but do care about the costs, support, training and if their problems > are going to be solved. The other thing do not make linux look like it > needs too much technical knowledge to use or like something that's out > of this world tell the prospective convert that its like windoz and it > becomes interesting. > > The obstacles to Linux is that most people do not have the broadband > to get the free software from and hence zimbos will not see the reason > to try it out or migrate because pirated windows software is more > readily available than broadband. > If the piracy issue is tackled by the government and jail terms > attached to activities associated to piracy then you will be able to > overcome this issue and have a long queue of zimbos wanting your services dejavu. > > > > The way to go is to provide relevant business or personal solutions > and Windowz will lose hands down. DO NOT SHOOT DOWN WINDOZ provide > solutions to problems. > > > > Regards > > > > Nyasha > > >> From: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw-request@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >> Subject: Ubuntu-zw Digest, Vol 23, Issue 8 >> To: <a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:00:42 +0100 >> >> Send Ubuntu-zw mailing list submissions to >> <a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw</a> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> <a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw-request@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw-request@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> <a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw-owner@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw-owner@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-zw digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. RE: Thoughts on OSS ZW (Neil) >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:55:24 +0200 >> From: "Neil" <<a href="mailto:neil.coetzer@nationalit.co.zw">neil.coetzer@nationalit.co.zw</a>> >> Subject: RE: Thoughts on OSS ZW >> To: "'ubuntu-zw'" <<a href="mailto:ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com</a>> >> Cc: <a href="mailto:team@ubuntu.org.zw">team@ubuntu.org.zw</a> >> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20090407165336.87BBE1A7F3C@mail.nationalit.co.zw">20090407165336.87BBE1A7F3C@mail.nationalit.co.zw</a>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> KT! Nice to see the passion there dude!!! I can see it must have been >> a very heated "debate" :) >> >> >> >> Unfortunately, it's a bit like trying to get someone to change their >> religion.. It's not likely to happen very easily. Also, as I've said >> to you before, the majority of guys who put down open source (or >> Linux/Ubuntu in general), aren't arguing because they're passionate >> about Windows, but normally because they're intimidated by Linux :) >> At least that's normally been the case in my experience. So my advice >> is: instead of getting angry with people for their closed-minded, >> closed-source opinions.. Feel sorry for them instead! I guess some >> people are born for Linux and others are born to be button monkeys >> hahahahahahahaha. >> >> >> >> So ya, I doubt it was passion driving his argument.. More likely a >> defense mechanism due to feelings of inadequacy at being intimidated >> by a superior operating system :) It's the same as a person watching >> a movie.. It might be one of the best story plots in history, but if >> someone doesn't "understand" >> it, they'll say the movie was bad. Same principles I think. >> >> >> >> I do agree with you though, that those with an "open source vision" >> for Zim are few and far between. However, all that means is that we >> will have greater satisfaction when that vision is realized, and when >> confronted by the ignorance of people who don't know any better, that >> should only fuel our passion even more to go out there and educate >> more people! And of course, the Freedom Toaster will play a huge role >> in this too, especially if we get the publicity we're hoping for. In >> the spirit of Ubuntu, we just have to try our hardest to educate >> people and cultivate an open-source "national attitude". We have to >> accept that we will face resistance and try to be patient and even >> respectful of other people's views. but it sure ain't easy, is it? >> Ok, ok. I'll make an effort to stop calling them button monkeys. >> >> >> >> The fact is, open source WILL gain a solid footing in Zim - simply >> based on cost factors, it is inevitable. Our job is only to speed up >> the process. >> As >> we all know, Zim really does face an IT crisis and has been facing it >> for some time. At the end of the day open source (and specifically >> Ubuntu!!) has greater potential than any proprietary software to play >> a significant role in rescuing the country from that crisis. Just >> because it's free. >> >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: Kalpesh Thaker [mailto:<a href="mailto:luminary06@gmail.com">luminary06@gmail.com</a>] >> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:25 PM >> To: ubuntu-zw >> Cc: <a href="mailto:team@ubuntu.org.zw">team@ubuntu.org.zw</a> >> Subject: Thoughts on OSS ZW >> >> >> >> Hey guys, >> >> just some thoughts.... i had a huge discussion with the one guy here >> at the office about why ubuntu cannot be compared to windows.. and of >> why ubuntu wins hands down even before the discussion has started. >> purely because ubuntu is free, and the developers working on it, do >> it as an open source project, rather than as a marketing tool... >> >> 90% of the other persons argument came down to the availability of >> windows and its programs and of how easy it is to use in general. And >> of how much better it looks... >> >> so,,, i asked the same dude, how much he paid for windows, he said he >> got it for free...and that he downloaded it off the internet. >> >> piracy!!!! WTF!!!!!!!??? how can you argue of how windows is better >> than ubuntu, if you pirated it!!!! >> >> hahaha! im sorry but i just find it very ridiculous....that someone >> can argue so "passionately" over something that he legally could be >> jailed for!! hahaha..i completely freaked out...i just cant stand to >> talk to such people.... >> >> Seriously though, windows guys will never win this argument.. over >> which is better. >> considering you can run an ubuntu machine at nearly 100% of windows >> type average usability.... >> and never have to pay for software.... ..as far as im concerned, >> there is no argument. >> >> the second argument, and i can call it an ARGUMENT (yes, some swear >> words did show themselves), is of how he shot down the freedom >> toaster idea...as being a waste of time. >> >> see, this is where i lost it...... >> >> i gave him three problems, and wanted him to answer them, being a >> microsoft stooge... >> >> this is a scenario of around 80% of our fellow zimbabweans, a >> situation which is real on the ground in our present time. >> >> 1 - the average user will never afford to buy a computer. >> 2 - the average user will have to rely on other parties to provide >> them with the "IT education" they will need for a job. >> 3 - the average user will never afford to buy broadband or even a >> dialup connection, in any case dial up is limited for software >> procurement. >> >> so....what were his answers?????? unsurprisingly, a dumb ass look on >> his face..... >> >> okes, the sad reality is that we are in this open source fight by >> ourselves in this country... our OSS visions are held by only us. >> and as such, we will have to uphold this vision as a "loco team" as >> well as an "open source community". Its very clear after the chat >> with this fool, that no one really cares about the fellow on the >> street. Guys like this are very oblivious to anything else out there, >> because they can get everything for free, whether its legal or not. >> They just dont care....its time like this, that makes me realise just >> how much BSA could gain from coming to a country like this, and >> believe me, they will come. Just a matter of time.. thats all. >> >> He said he had used ubuntu for 2 months, and called it quits thereafter. >> so >> i asked him how long he's been using windows, and he said most of his >> life. >> >> This is the problem, you cant use ubuntu for 2 months, and then >> expect to know and understand how it works... unless this dude used >> ubuntu for 5 years, and windows for also 5 years, i would value and >> respect his opinion. >> Believe me, i know everything there is to know about windows, i've >> used it also for a long time in my life, purely, because i didnt know >> there was a worthy alternative. BUT, there is an alternative.. >> and people need to know about it. >> >> unfortunately, this is what we will experience in our quest to bring >> open source out into this country. >> >> my answers to the above questions, were as follows: >> >> 1 - remove the cost of the OS (microsoft) then deal with bare metal >> hardware prices. it is sad, that the price of a computer can be >> driven up to 70% more than the basic hardware cost, because of >> software licensing. Microsoft are very clever, in that they have made >> alliances with brand computers, whereby MS OS's come bundled with the >> machine, whether you like it or not, and remember, office suites and >> antivirus are sold seperately! >> >> 2 - If the relevant person can have his own computer, he will be able >> to invest as much time into learning IT as they want, without paying >> anyone or anything (besides zesa of course). Like most of us, they >> may discover a hidden talent within the IT underworld, and that could >> lead them to a job, and an income. With room for individual >> expansion... >> >> i.e you can be a sadza chef who knows how to setup exim, you will >> then get a hungry customer walk in, talking about how shitty >> microsoft exchange can be, you could suggest using exim to him, give >> him a few pointers on how to implement it, before you know it, you're >> an IT manager at that same company, driving a mazda bt50 double cab. >> >> 3 - the answer to this???? OUR BELOVED TOASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!! end of story. >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >> <<a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/" target="_blank">http://www.mailscanner.info/</a>> MailScanner, and is believed to be >> clean. >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3991 (20090407) __________ >> >> >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> <a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3992 (20090407) __________ >> >> >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> >> <a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-zw/attachments/20090407/6702" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-zw/attachments/20090407/6702</a> >> 5228/attachment-0001.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-zw mailing list >> <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw</a> >> >> >> End of Ubuntu-zw Digest, Vol 23, Issue 8 >> **************************************** > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the all-new Windows Live Messenger family <a href="http://get.live.com" target="_blank">http://get.live.com</a> -- Ubuntu-zw mailing list <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw</a> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature </div></div>database 3995 (20090408) __________ <div class="im"> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. <a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature </div>database 3996 (20090409) __________ <div class="im"> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. <a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a> </div>-- <div><div></div><div class="h5">Ubuntu-zw mailing list <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-zw@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw</a> </div></div></blockquote></div>