No subject
Mon Mar 16 18:30:53 GMT 2009
Simcoolus
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Kalpesh Thaker <luminary06 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Either way, i agree with what Neil said, everyone has an opinion, fair
> enough,
> but i do believe that more people will need to get involved if open source
> will ever have
> a chance in zimbabwe.
>
> Open source is about education.... end of the day.
> I can run an ubuntu/kubuntu desktop 100% perfectly...because i know how a
> computer works, and
> of how everything fits together.
>
> Fair enough, some people cant be bothered about this, so congratulations,
> rest assured that
> microsoft have exploited your stupidity to make them billions of dollars.
> :)
>
> hahahahahhaha!
>
> In terms of software developers and other specialist desktop uses, well,
> that is a different story, and i
> believe in the next 3 years, when we look back on this conversation, we
> will see how far open source has come.
>
> remember, ubuntu has a release every 6 months, windows, every 4 years. that
> is 8 releases... before the next windows
> version.
>
> most people see this as situation where open source will always chase
> closed source, but what if MS drop
> the ball again like they did with vista? they will have to work damn hard
> to get their next release up to scratch.
>
> for those people out there who imagine that windows 7 will be easy to
> pirate, well believe me it wont,
> put it this way, windows vista, as yet still hasnt got a 100% working
> crack.
> that is 3 years after the official release. MS are not going to give in to
> piracy.... this is all about the $$$ now...
> especially with the whole global economy falling on itself.... every cent
> counts....
>
> This is where OSS will get an advantage....
>
> Guys, open source licensing agreements clearly state, that if you feel you
> can improve on something that is
> already there, then go ahead and do so, you will be given full credit for
> it. You will however not get and money back for it.
> the people out there maintaining the current ubuntu packages are actually a
> few people doing a really really good job.
> most of these people have day jobs, and will go home and work on bugs etc
> etc, because its for a good cause.
>
> if any of you have had a glimpse at the new kde 2.2... you will be very
> suprised i promise you! that is the power open
> source in its purest form.
> .
> intelligence boils down to how you use whatever resources are available to
> you at any given time. if everytime, you have to upgrade
> to a new windows version when you buy a new computer or have a virus, well
> intelligence speaks for itself.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Neil <neil.coetzer at nationalit.co.zw>wrote:
>
>> Hi Simpson,
>>
>> Granted, setting up dialup is still painful on Ubuntu most of the time.
>>
>> As far as any development tools that require Windows, my personal
>> preference
>> is to run Windows within a virtual environment on top of Ubuntu. At the
>> end
>> of the day for many of us, it's about stability and security. Having to
>> reboot a Windows machine twice a day is not for me.
>>
>> However as you said, it's not for everyone and other people's opinions do
>> have to be respected. However, since this is an Ubuntu mailing list and
>> not
>> a Windows mailing list, I think we can get away with being a little biased
>> ;)
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ubuntu-zw-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com
>> [mailto:ubuntu-zw-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Simpson Moyo
>> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:48 AM
>> To: nyasha chihanga
>> Cc: ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com
>> Subject: Re: Thoughts on OSS ZW
>>
>> Simpson,
>>
>> I totally agree with Nyasha.
>>
>> I have a linux server for my home network that runs ubuntu 8.10. It is my
>> file server, domain controller, and develoment server. And it works
>> great...
>> i wouldnt change that setup even if microsft server 2008 went open
>> source..
>> :).
>>
>> But on the other hand... an ubuntu DESKTOP is not very practical for most
>> people. You need to take into consideration that not everyone has an IT
>> background.
>>
>> Good examples...
>>
>> Case 1:
>>
>> My sister is a writer and i setup ubuntu on her laptop...
>>
>> N.B. This is a person that just uses Microsoft Word and IE... Nothing
>> else...
>>
>> Anyway... back to the story.. I setup ubuntu on her laptop... and she
>> dials
>> up from home... and it is not easy to setup a dialup connection on ubuntu
>> for a non technical user... She had to come back to harare with the laptop
>> so i setup a dialup for her and even i had to google a solution... She
>> eventually went back to XP.
>>
>> Case 2:
>>
>> I installed ubuntu on my laptop and wanted to use it as my primary
>> development OS... It was a total pain.... It took upto 2 weeks to get it
>> to
>> work the way i wanted. and even then some of the tools there were not as
>> good as the windows tools... For the sake of productivity i had to revert
>> back to windows...
>>
>> So in short what i am trying to say is this. I dont think Windows is
>> better
>> than Linux... Nor do i think Linux is better than Windows... I think that
>> when one wants to install an OS they need to look at what they want to be
>> using it for and if it will be practical to use in that environment/setup.
>>
>> We need to be open minded. Lets not let our ignorance blind us. There are
>> many areas where windows slam dunks linux hands down! same applies to
>> Linux... There are also many areas where windows has nothing on linux...
>>
>> We are intelligent individuals... Lets lets look at things objectively...
>> linux is not for everyone and everyhing nor is windows for everyone and
>> everything... thats why none of them have 100% market share.
>>
>> My $0.02
>>
>> Simpson Moyo
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/8/09, nyasha chihanga <rgchihanga at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > How are you everyone
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This is an interesting topic i thought i will reply to. The question
>> > we should ask ourselves is that; if a student sleeps in class during a
>> > lesson, who is at fault? The tutor or the student?
>> >
>> > I think the tutor is at fault because the lesson they are giving is
>> > not relevant to the student's current position and if it is, then
>> > tutor is not making it interesting enough to keep the student awake.
>> > This is how it applies to all of us who think linux is the best
>> > operating when you want to argue or propose linux as the best option
>> > give relevant solutions that can overcome the current problems a user
>> > is having with VISTA as the competitor this should not pose a big
>> > problem. This can be extended to enterprise problem's for larger
>> > companies give them solutions to their problems not what platform they
>> > should be running on because it is better they really do not want to
>> > hear all about that, they do not mind how you implement the solution,
>> > but do care about the costs, support, training and if their problems
>> > are going to be solved. The other thing do not make linux look like it
>> > needs too much technical knowledge to use or like something that's out
>> > of this world tell the prospective convert that its like windoz and it
>> > becomes interesting.
>> >
>> > The obstacles to Linux is that most people do not have the broadband
>> > to get the free software from and hence zimbos will not see the reason
>> > to try it out or migrate because pirated windows software is more
>> > readily available than broadband.
>> > If the piracy issue is tackled by the government and jail terms
>> > attached to activities associated to piracy then you will be able to
>> > overcome this issue and have a long queue of zimbos wanting your
>> services
>> dejavu.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The way to go is to provide relevant business or personal solutions
>> > and Windowz will lose hands down. DO NOT SHOOT DOWN WINDOZ provide
>> > solutions to problems.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Nyasha
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: ubuntu-zw-request at lists.ubuntu.com
>> >> Subject: Ubuntu-zw Digest, Vol 23, Issue 8
>> >> To: ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com
>> >> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:00:42 +0100
>> >>
>> >> Send Ubuntu-zw mailing list submissions to
>> >> ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com
>> >>
>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-zw
>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >> ubuntu-zw-request at lists.ubuntu.com
>> >>
>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >> ubuntu-zw-owner at lists.ubuntu.com
>> >>
>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >> than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-zw digest..."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >> 1. RE: Thoughts on OSS ZW (Neil)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> -
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:55:24 +0200
>> >> From: "Neil" <neil.coetzer at nationalit.co.zw>
>> >> Subject: RE: Thoughts on OSS ZW
>> >> To: "'ubuntu-zw'" <ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> >> Cc: team at ubuntu.org.zw
>> >> Message-ID: <20090407165336.87BBE1A7F3C at mail.nationalit.co.zw>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> KT! Nice to see the passion there dude!!! I can see it must have been
>> >> a very heated "debate" :)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately, it's a bit like trying to get someone to change their
>> >> religion.. It's not likely to happen very easily. Also, as I've said
>> >> to you before, the majority of guys who put down open source (or
>> >> Linux/Ubuntu in general), aren't arguing because they're passionate
>> >> about Windows, but normally because they're intimidated by Linux :)
>> >> At least that's normally been the case in my experience. So my advice
>> >> is: instead of getting angry with people for their closed-minded,
>> >> closed-source opinions.. Feel sorry for them instead! I guess some
>> >> people are born for Linux and others are born to be button monkeys
>> >> hahahahahahahaha.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So ya, I doubt it was passion driving his argument.. More likely a
>> >> defense mechanism due to feelings of inadequacy at being intimidated
>> >> by a superior operating system :) It's the same as a person watching
>> >> a movie.. It might be one of the best story plots in history, but if
>> >> someone doesn't "understand"
>> >> it, they'll say the movie was bad. Same principles I think.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I do agree with you though, that those with an "open source vision"
>> >> for Zim are few and far between. However, all that means is that we
>> >> will have greater satisfaction when that vision is realized, and when
>> >> confronted by the ignorance of people who don't know any better, that
>> >> should only fuel our passion even more to go out there and educate
>> >> more people! And of course, the Freedom Toaster will play a huge role
>> >> in this too, especially if we get the publicity we're hoping for. In
>> >> the spirit of Ubuntu, we just have to try our hardest to educate
>> >> people and cultivate an open-source "national attitude". We have to
>> >> accept that we will face resistance and try to be patient and even
>> >> respectful of other people's views. but it sure ain't easy, is it?
>> >> Ok, ok. I'll make an effort to stop calling them button monkeys.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The fact is, open source WILL gain a solid footing in Zim - simply
>> >> based on cost factors, it is inevitable. Our job is only to speed up
>> >> the process.
>> >> As
>> >> we all know, Zim really does face an IT crisis and has been facing it
>> >> for some time. At the end of the day open source (and specifically
>> >> Ubuntu!!) has greater potential than any proprietary software to play
>> >> a significant role in rescuing the country from that crisis. Just
>> >> because it's free.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _____
>> >>
>> >> From: Kalpesh Thaker [mailto:luminary06 at gmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:25 PM
>> >> To: ubuntu-zw
>> >> Cc: team at ubuntu.org.zw
>> >> Subject: Thoughts on OSS ZW
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hey guys,
>> >>
>> >> just some thoughts.... i had a huge discussion with the one guy here
>> >> at the office about why ubuntu cannot be compared to windows.. and of
>> >> why ubuntu wins hands down even before the discussion has started.
>> >> purely because ubuntu is free, and the developers working on it, do
>> >> it as an open source project, rather than as a marketing tool...
>> >>
>> >> 90% of the other persons argument came down to the availability of
>> >> windows and its programs and of how easy it is to use in general. And
>> >> of how much better it looks...
>> >>
>> >> so,,, i asked the same dude, how much he paid for windows, he said he
>> >> got it for free...and that he downloaded it off the internet.
>> >>
>> >> piracy!!!! WTF!!!!!!!??? how can you argue of how windows is better
>> >> than ubuntu, if you pirated it!!!!
>> >>
>> >> hahaha! im sorry but i just find it very ridiculous....that someone
>> >> can argue so "passionately" over something that he legally could be
>> >> jailed for!! hahaha..i completely freaked out...i just cant stand to
>> >> talk to such people....
>> >>
>> >> Seriously though, windows guys will never win this argument.. over
>> >> which is better.
>> >> considering you can run an ubuntu machine at nearly 100% of windows
>> >> type average usability....
>> >> and never have to pay for software.... ..as far as im concerned,
>> >> there is no argument.
>> >>
>> >> the second argument, and i can call it an ARGUMENT (yes, some swear
>> >> words did show themselves), is of how he shot down the freedom
>> >> toaster idea...as being a waste of time.
>> >>
>> >> see, this is where i lost it......
>> >>
>> >> i gave him three problems, and wanted him to answer them, being a
>> >> microsoft stooge...
>> >>
>> >> this is a scenario of around 80% of our fellow zimbabweans, a
>> >> situation which is real on the ground in our present time.
>> >>
>> >> 1 - the average user will never afford to buy a computer.
>> >> 2 - the average user will have to rely on other parties to provide
>> >> them with the "IT education" they will need for a job.
>> >> 3 - the average user will never afford to buy broadband or even a
>> >> dialup connection, in any case dial up is limited for software
>> >> procurement.
>> >>
>> >> so....what were his answers?????? unsurprisingly, a dumb ass look on
>> >> his face.....
>> >>
>> >> okes, the sad reality is that we are in this open source fight by
>> >> ourselves in this country... our OSS visions are held by only us.
>> >> and as such, we will have to uphold this vision as a "loco team" as
>> >> well as an "open source community". Its very clear after the chat
>> >> with this fool, that no one really cares about the fellow on the
>> >> street. Guys like this are very oblivious to anything else out there,
>> >> because they can get everything for free, whether its legal or not.
>> >> They just dont care....its time like this, that makes me realise just
>> >> how much BSA could gain from coming to a country like this, and
>> >> believe me, they will come. Just a matter of time.. thats all.
>> >>
>> >> He said he had used ubuntu for 2 months, and called it quits
>> thereafter.
>> >> so
>> >> i asked him how long he's been using windows, and he said most of his
>> >> life.
>> >>
>> >> This is the problem, you cant use ubuntu for 2 months, and then
>> >> expect to know and understand how it works... unless this dude used
>> >> ubuntu for 5 years, and windows for also 5 years, i would value and
>> >> respect his opinion.
>> >> Believe me, i know everything there is to know about windows, i've
>> >> used it also for a long time in my life, purely, because i didnt know
>> >> there was a worthy alternative. BUT, there is an alternative..
>> >> and people need to know about it.
>> >>
>> >> unfortunately, this is what we will experience in our quest to bring
>> >> open source out into this country.
>> >>
>> >> my answers to the above questions, were as follows:
>> >>
>> >> 1 - remove the cost of the OS (microsoft) then deal with bare metal
>> >> hardware prices. it is sad, that the price of a computer can be
>> >> driven up to 70% more than the basic hardware cost, because of
>> >> software licensing. Microsoft are very clever, in that they have made
>> >> alliances with brand computers, whereby MS OS's come bundled with the
>> >> machine, whether you like it or not, and remember, office suites and
>> >> antivirus are sold seperately!
>> >>
>> >> 2 - If the relevant person can have his own computer, he will be able
>> >> to invest as much time into learning IT as they want, without paying
>> >> anyone or anything (besides zesa of course). Like most of us, they
>> >> may discover a hidden talent within the IT underworld, and that could
>> >> lead them to a job, and an income. With room for individual
>> >> expansion...
>> >>
>> >> i.e you can be a sadza chef who knows how to setup exim, you will
>> >> then get a hungry customer walk in, talking about how shitty
>> >> microsoft exchange can be, you could suggest using exim to him, give
>> >> him a few pointers on how to implement it, before you know it, you're
>> >> an IT manager at that same company, driving a mazda bt50 double cab.
>> >>
>> >> 3 - the answer to this???? OUR BELOVED TOASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!! end of
>> story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
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--001485f5b13038441104672528e9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You know what guys.... I think you are losing objective. I know i am not as=
active a member as most of you... but i feel we are starting to focus on a=
ll the wrong things... This is not a battle against Microsoft - i would lik=
e to believe we are here to teach people and give then a better appreciatio=
n of Ubuntu - so they can decide for themselves that OSS is the way to go. =
Not dictate to them that it is better because of 1. 2. 3... We are not an a=
ctivist group.... (well at least i hope not...)<br>
<br>People will always resist change... so lets introduce new things in a m=
ore diplomatic fashion... <br><br>If anything... a debate like this will on=
ly make windows fans defend windows... and Linux fans defend Linux...<br>
<br>If Bill Gates can appreciate Linux as a worthy adversary... we should b=
e able to appreciate Windows as one too... because in case you haven't =
noticed... its the only OS standing in our way... so respect your opponent.=
<br>
<br>Like Kalpesh said.. Victory is imminent... but lets focus on making bet=
ter software and educating people on its use... not petty school girl squab=
bles.. <br><br>Hope i didn't step on any toes...<br><br>Just thought th=
at someone needed to say it.<br>
<br>From a half Ubuntu half Windows fan.<br><br>Simcoolus<br><br><br><br><b=
r><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Kalpesh Th=
aker <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:luminary06 at gmail.com">luminary=
06 at gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Either way, i agr=
ee with what Neil said, everyone has an opinion, fair enough, <br>but i do =
believe that more people will need to get involved if open source will ever=
have<br>
a chance in zimbabwe.<br><br>Open source is about education.... end of the =
day.<br>
I can run an ubuntu/kubuntu desktop 100% perfectly...because i know how a c=
omputer works, and <br>of how everything fits together. <br><br>Fair enough=
, some people cant be bothered about this, so congratulations, rest assured=
that<br>
microsoft have exploited your stupidity to make them billions of dollars.=
=A0 :)<br><br>hahahahahhaha!<br><br>In terms of software developers and oth=
er specialist desktop uses, well, that is a different story, and i <br>beli=
eve in the next 3 years, when we look back on this conversation, we will se=
e how far open source has come.<br>
<br>remember, ubuntu has a release every 6 months, windows, every 4 years. =
that is 8 releases... before the next windows<br>version.<br><br>most peopl=
e see this as situation where open source will always chase closed source, =
but what if MS drop<br>
the ball again like they did with vista? they will have to work damn hard t=
o get their next release up to scratch.<br><br>for those people out there w=
ho imagine that windows 7 will be easy to pirate, well believe me it wont,<=
br>
put it this way, windows vista, as yet still hasnt got a 100% working crack=
. <br>that is 3 years after the official release. MS are not going to give =
in to piracy.... this is all about the $$$ now... <br>especially with the w=
hole global economy falling on itself.... every cent counts....<br>
<br>This is where OSS will get an advantage....<br><br>Guys, open source li=
censing agreements clearly state, that if you feel you can improve on somet=
hing that is <br>already there, then go ahead and do so, you will be given =
full credit for it. You will however not get and money back for it.<br>
the people out there maintaining the current ubuntu packages are actually a=
few people doing a really really good job. <br>most of these people have d=
ay jobs, and will go home and work on bugs etc etc, because its for a good =
cause.<br>
<br>if any of you have had a glimpse at the new kde 2.2... you will be very=
suprised i promise you! that is the power open <br>source in its purest fo=
rm.<br>.<br>intelligence boils down to how you use whatever resources are a=
vailable to you at any given time. if everytime, you have to upgrade <br>
to a new windows version when you buy a new computer or have a virus, well =
intelligence speaks for itself.<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><b=
r><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Neil <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:neil.coetzer at nationalit.co.zw" targe=
t=3D"_blank">neil.coetzer at nationalit.co.zw</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Simpson,<br>
<br>
Granted, setting up dialup is still painful on Ubuntu most of the time.<br>
<br>
As far as any development tools that require Windows, my personal preferenc=
e<br>
is to run Windows within a virtual environment on top of Ubuntu. At the end=
<br>
of the day for many of us, it's about stability and security. Having to=
<br>
reboot a Windows machine twice a day is not for me.<br>
<br>
However as you said, it's not for everyone and other people's opini=
ons do<br>
have to be respected. However, since this is an Ubuntu mailing list and not=
<br>
a Windows mailing list, I think we can get away with being a little biased<=
br>
;)<br>
<br>
Neil<br>
<div><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">ubuntu-zw-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
</div><div><div></div><div>[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw-bounces at list=
s.ubuntu.com" target=3D"_blank">ubuntu-zw-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com</a>] On =
Behalf Of Simpson Moyo<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:48 AM<br>
To: nyasha chihanga<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com" target=3D"_blank">ubuntu-=
zw at lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on OSS ZW<br>
<br>
Simpson,<br>
<br>
I totally agree with Nyasha.<br>
<br>
I have a linux server for my home network that runs ubuntu 8.10. It is my<b=
r>
file server, domain controller, and develoment server. And it works great..=
.<br>
i wouldnt change that setup even if microsft server 2008 went open source..=
<br>
:).<br>
<br>
But on the other hand... an ubuntu DESKTOP is not very practical for most<b=
r>
people. You need to take into consideration that not everyone has an IT<br>
background.<br>
<br>
Good examples...<br>
<br>
Case 1:<br>
<br>
My sister is a writer and i setup ubuntu on her laptop...<br>
<br>
N.B. This is a person that just uses Microsoft Word and IE... Nothing<br>
else...<br>
<br>
Anyway... back to the story.. I setup ubuntu on her laptop... and she dials=
<br>
up from home... and it is not easy to setup a dialup connection on ubuntu<b=
r>
for a non technical user... She had to come back to harare with the laptop<=
br>
so i setup a dialup for her and even i had to google a solution... She<br>
eventually went back to XP.<br>
<br>
Case 2:<br>
<br>
I installed ubuntu on my laptop and wanted to use it as my primary<br>
development OS... It was a total pain.... It took upto 2 weeks to get it to=
<br>
work the way i wanted. and even then some of the tools there were not as<br=
>
good as the windows tools... For the sake of productivity i had to revert<b=
r>
back to windows...<br>
<br>
So in short what i am trying to say is this. I dont think Windows is better=
<br>
than Linux... Nor do i think Linux is better than Windows... I think that<b=
r>
when one wants to install an OS they need to look at what they want to be<b=
r>
using it for and if it will be practical to use in that environment/setup.<=
br>
<br>
We need to be open minded. Lets not let our ignorance blind us. There are<b=
r>
many areas where windows slam dunks linux hands down! same applies to<br>
Linux... There are also many areas where windows has nothing on linux...<br=
>
<br>
We are intelligent individuals... Lets lets look at things objectively...<b=
r>
linux is not for everyone and everyhing nor is windows for everyone and<br>
everything... thats why none of them have 100% market share.<br>
<br>
My $0.02<br>
<br>
Simpson Moyo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 4/8/09, nyasha chihanga <<a href=3D"mailto:rgchihanga at hotmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">rgchihanga at hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> How are you everyone<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This is an interesting topic i thought i will reply to. The question<b=
r>
> we should ask ourselves is that; if a student sleeps in class during a=
<br>
> lesson, who is at fault? The tutor or the student?<br>
><br>
> I think the tutor is at fault because the lesson they are giving is<br=
>
> not relevant to the student's current position and if it is, then<=
br>
> tutor is not making it interesting enough to keep the student awake.<b=
r>
> This is how it applies to all of us who think linux is the best<br>
> operating when you want to argue or propose linux as the best option<b=
r>
> give relevant solutions that can overcome the current problems a user<=
br>
> is having with VISTA as the competitor this should not pose a big<br>
> problem. This can be extended to enterprise problem's for larger<b=
r>
> companies give them solutions to their problems not what platform they=
<br>
> should be running on because it is better they really do not want to<b=
r>
> hear all about that, they do not mind how you implement the solution,<=
br>
> but do care about the costs, support, training and if their problems<b=
r>
> are going to be solved. The other thing do not make linux look like it=
<br>
> needs too much technical knowledge to use or like something that's=
out<br>
> of this world tell the prospective convert that its like windoz and it=
<br>
> becomes interesting.<br>
><br>
> The obstacles to Linux is that most people do not have the broadband<b=
r>
> to get the free software from and hence zimbos will not see the reason=
<br>
> to try it out or migrate because pirated windows software is more<br>
> readily available than broadband.<br>
> If the piracy issue is tackled by the government and jail terms<br>
> attached to activities associated to piracy then you will be able to<b=
r>
> overcome this issue and have a long queue of zimbos wanting your servi=
ces<br>
dejavu.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> The way to go is to provide relevant business or personal solutions<br=
>
> and Windowz will lose hands down. DO NOT SHOOT DOWN WINDOZ provide<br>
> solutions to problems.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Nyasha<br>
><br>
><br>
>> From: <a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw-request at lists.ubuntu.com" target=
=3D"_blank">ubuntu-zw-request at lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
>> Subject: Ubuntu-zw Digest, Vol 23, Issue 8<br>
>> To: <a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com" target=3D"_blank=
">ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
>> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:00:42 +0100<br>
>><br>
>> Send Ubuntu-zw mailing list submissions to<br>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com" target=3D=
"_blank">ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ub=
untu-zw" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu=
-zw</a><br>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' =
to<br>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw-request at lists.ubuntu.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">ubuntu-zw-request at lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-zw-owner at lists.ubuntu.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ubuntu-zw-owner at lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specifi=
c<br>
>> than "Re: Contents of Ubuntu-zw digest..."<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Today's Topics:<br>
>><br>
>> =A0 =A01. RE: Thoughts on OSS ZW (Neil)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
>> -<br>
>><br>
>> Message: 1<br>
>> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:55:24 +0200<br>
>> From: "Neil" <<a href=3D"mailto:neil.coetzer at national=
it.co.zw" target=3D"_blank">neil.coetzer at nationalit.co.zw</a>><br>
>> Subject: RE: Thoughts on OSS ZW<br>
>> To: "'ubuntu-zw'" <<a href=3D"mailto:ubuntu-z=
w at lists.ubuntu.com" target=3D"_blank">ubuntu-zw at lists.ubuntu.com</a>><br=
>
>> Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:team at ubuntu.org.zw" target=3D"_blank">team at u=
buntu.org.zw</a><br>
>> Message-ID: <<a href=3D"mailto:20090407165336.87BBE1A7F3C at mail.=
nationalit.co.zw" target=3D"_blank">20090407165336.87BBE1A7F3C at mail.nationa=
lit.co.zw</a>><br>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"<br>
>><br>
>> KT! Nice to see the passion there dude!!! I can see it must have b=
een<br>
>> a very heated "debate" :)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Unfortunately, it's a bit like trying to get someone to change=
their<br>
>> religion.. It's not likely to happen very easily. Also, as I&#=
39;ve said<br>
>> to you before, the majority of guys who put down open source (or<b=
r>
>> Linux/Ubuntu in general), aren't arguing because they're p=
assionate<br>
>> about Windows, but normally because they're intimidated by Lin=
ux :)<br>
>> At least that's normally been the case in my experience. So my=
advice<br>
>> is: instead of getting angry with people for their closed-minded,<=
br>
>> closed-source opinions.. Feel sorry for them instead! I guess some=
<br>
>> people are born for Linux and others are born to be button monkeys=
<br>
>> hahahahahahahaha.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> So ya, I doubt it was passion driving his argument.. More likely a=
<br>
>> defense mechanism due to feelings of inadequacy at being intimidat=
ed<br>
>> by a superior operating system :) It's the same as a person wa=
tching<br>
>> a movie.. It might be one of the best story plots in history, but =
if<br>
>> someone doesn't "understand"<br>
>> it, they'll say the movie was bad. Same principles I think.<br=
>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I do agree with you though, that those with an "open source v=
ision"<br>
>> for Zim are few and far between. However, all that means is that w=
e<br>
>> will have greater satisfaction when that vision is realized, and w=
hen<br>
>> confronted by the ignorance of people who don't know any bette=
r, that<br>
>> should only fuel our passion even more to go out there and educate=
<br>
>> more people! And of course, the Freedom Toaster will play a huge r=
ole<br>
>> in this too, especially if we get the publicity we're hoping f=
or. In<br>
>> the spirit of Ubuntu, we just have to try our hardest to educate<b=
r>
>> people and cultivate an open-source "national attitude".=
We have to<br>
>> accept that we will face resistance and try to be patient and even=
<br>
>> respectful of other people's views. but it sure ain't easy=
, is it?<br>
>> Ok, ok. I'll make an effort to stop calling them button monkey=
s.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The fact is, open source WILL gain a solid footing in Zim - simply=
<br>
>> based on cost factors, it is inevitable. Our job is only to speed =
up<br>
>> the process.<br>
>> As<br>
>> we all know, Zim really does face an IT crisis and has been facing=
it<br>
>> for some time. At the end of the day open source (and specifically=
<br>
>> Ubuntu!!) has greater potential than any proprietary software to p=
lay<br>
>> a significant role in rescuing the country from that crisis. Just<=
br>
>> because it's free.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> =A0 _____<br>
>><br>
>> From: Kalpesh Thaker [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:luminary06 at gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">luminary06 at gmail.com</a>]<br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:25 PM<br>
>> To: ubuntu-zw<br>
>> Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:team at ubuntu.org.zw" target=3D"_blank">team at u=
buntu.org.zw</a><br>
>> Subject: Thoughts on OSS ZW<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Hey guys,<br>
>><br>
>> just some thoughts.... i had a huge discussion with the one guy he=
re<br>
>> at the office about why ubuntu cannot be compared to windows.. and=
of<br>
>> why ubuntu wins hands down even before the discussion has started.=
<br>
>> purely because ubuntu is free, and the developers working on it, d=
o<br>
>> it as an open source project, rather than as a marketing tool...<b=
r>
>><br>
>> 90% of the other persons argument came down to the availability of=
<br>
>> windows and its programs and of how easy it is to use in general. =
And<br>
>> of how much better it looks...<br>
>><br>
>> so,,, i asked the same dude, how much he paid for windows, he said=
he<br>
>> got it for free...and that he downloaded it off the internet.<br>
>><br>
>> piracy!!!! WTF!!!!!!!??? how can you argue of how windows is bette=
r<br>
>> than ubuntu, if you pirated it!!!!<br>
>><br>
>> hahaha! im sorry but i just find it very ridiculous....that someon=
e<br>
>> can argue so "passionately" over something that he legal=
ly could be<br>
>> jailed for!! hahaha..i completely freaked out...i just cant stand =
to<br>
>> talk to such people....<br>
>><br>
>> =A0Seriously though, windows guys will never win this argument.. o=
ver<br>
>> which is better.<br>
>> considering you can run an ubuntu machine at nearly 100% of window=
s<br>
>> type average usability....<br>
>> and never have to pay for software.... =A0..as far as im concerned=
,<br>
>> there is no argument.<br>
>><br>
>> the second argument, and i can call it an ARGUMENT (yes, some swea=
r<br>
>> words did show themselves), is of how he shot down the freedom<br>
>> toaster idea...as being a waste of time.<br>
>><br>
>> see, this is where i lost it......<br>
>><br>
>> i gave him three problems, and wanted him to answer them, being a<=
br>
>> microsoft stooge...<br>
>><br>
>> this is a scenario of around 80% of our fellow zimbabweans, a<br>
>> situation which is real on the ground in our present time.<br>
>><br>
>> 1 - the average user will never afford to buy a computer.<br>
>> 2 - the average user will have to rely on other parties to provide=
<br>
>> them with the "IT education" they will need for a job.<b=
r>
>> 3 - the average user will never afford to buy broadband or even a<=
br>
>> dialup connection, in any case dial up is limited for software<br>
>> procurement.<br>
>><br>
>> so....what were his answers?????? unsurprisingly, a dumb ass look =
on<br>
>> his face.....<br>
>><br>
>> okes, the sad reality is that we are in this open source fight by<=
br>
>> ourselves in this country... our OSS visions are held by only us.<=
br>
>> and as such, we will have to uphold this vision as a "loco te=
am" as<br>
>> well as an "open source community". Its very clear after=
the chat<br>
>> with this fool, that no one really cares about the fellow on the<b=
r>
>> street. Guys like this are very oblivious to anything else out the=
re,<br>
>> because they can get everything for free, whether its legal or not=
.<br>
>> They just dont care....its time like this, that makes me realise j=
ust<br>
>> how much BSA could gain from coming to a country like this, and<br=
>
>> believe me, they will come. Just a matter of time.. thats all.<br>
>><br>
>> He said he had used ubuntu for 2 months, and called it quits there=
after.<br>
>> so<br>
>> i asked him how long he's been using windows, and he said most=
of his<br>
>> life.<br>
>><br>
>> This is the problem, you cant use ubuntu for 2 months, and then<br=
>
>> expect to know and understand how it works... unless this dude use=
d<br>
>> ubuntu for 5 years, and windows for also 5 years, i would value an=
d<br>
>> respect his opinion.<br>
>> Believe me, i know everything there is to know about windows, i=
9;ve<br>
>> used it also for a long time in my life, purely, because i didnt k=
now<br>
>> there was a worthy alternative. BUT, there is an alternative..<br>
>> and people need to know about it.<br>
>><br>
>> unfortunately, =A0this is what we will experience in our quest to =
bring<br>
>> open source out into this country.<br>
>><br>
>> my answers to the above questions, were as follows:<br>
>><br>
>> 1 - remove the cost of the OS (microsoft) then deal with bare meta=
l<br>
>> hardware prices. it is sad, that the price of a computer can be<br=
>
>> driven up to 70% more than the basic hardware cost, because of<br>
>> software licensing. Microsoft are very clever, in that they have m=
ade<br>
>> alliances with brand computers, whereby MS OS's come bundled w=
ith the<br>
>> machine, whether you like it or not, and remember, office suites a=
nd<br>
>> antivirus are sold seperately!<br>
>><br>
>> 2 - If the relevant person can have his own computer, he will be a=
ble<br>
>> to invest as much time into learning IT as they want, without payi=
ng<br>
>> anyone or anything (besides zesa of course). Like most of us, they=
<br>
>> may discover a hidden talent within the IT underworld, and that co=
uld<br>
>> lead them to a job, and an income. With room for individual<br>
>> expansion...<br>
>><br>
>> i.e you can be a sadza chef who knows how to setup exim, you will<=
br>
>> then get a hungry customer walk in, talking about how shitty<br>
>> microsoft exchange can be, you could suggest using exim to him, gi=
ve<br>
>> him a few pointers on how to implement it, before you know it, you=
're<br>
>> an IT manager at that same company, driving a mazda bt50 double ca=
b.<br>
>><br>
>> 3 - =A0the answer to this???? OUR BELOVED TOASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!! end=
of<br>
story.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by=
<br>
>> <<a href=3D"http://www.mailscanner.info/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://www.mailscanner.info/</a>> MailScanner, and is believed to be<br>
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>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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