Hello Ireene - Sointu, Nice to hear your thoughts about the speech - I agree with just about everything you said. You've got yourself a fan - first for the "No title, no surname" bit, then for the "Using Linux for 10 years bit", and for the "being old enough to be a grandmother bit" - Actually, the last one doesn't matter, but there are just too many people who have the rigid conviction that they cannot learn anything new after 40. Ilavenil <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Ireene-Sointu <<a href="mailto:ireenesointu@phonecoop.coop">ireenesointu@phonecoop.coop</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Here are my feelings on this issue (being a woman and a mother - old enough to be a grandmother to many of you I suspect - I talk about feelings). First I want to say that I spent yesterday evening reading this <a href="http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/28/a-followup-on-the-shuttleworth-incident/" target="_blank">http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/28/a-followup-on-the-shuttleworth-incident/</a> (both the original with comments and the follow up)and this morning reading this <a href="http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/09/mark-shuttlewor-1.html" target="_blank">http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/09/mark-shuttlewor-1.html</a>, but I have not listened to the talk itself. I also want to say that I am only an end user, having used Linux now for about ten years and Ubuntu the last four or so. I am a person in my family who my children come to with computer problems. They sometimes bring their friends' Microsoft problems to me too for a solution. And most of the times I have been able to solve them. But being knowledgeable about using the computer does not make me familiar with all the terminology used in the computer world. So I come to this talk (what I have read of it) with some ideas about language usage generally. Carla Schroder is right in saying that "dumb stuff like that distracts from the talk itself". This quote from the talk did that for me. "A release is an amazing thing. I'm not talking about the happy ending, I'm talking about a software release, the fresh meat." All seem to agree that this was a bad joke. I did not first understand "happy ending". It was explained somewhere among all my readings. Then I came to Carla Schroder's article and the whole thing was even worse than I had understood. Take the "happy ending" and add "fresh meat" (I know it is a computer term) which I connect with prostitution as well and in particular using/abusing children sexually. I felt sick to my stomach with this connection and it did not diminish when the reference came to "trouble explaining to girls what we actually do". I understood this to mean explaining to women (I sincerely hope Mark Shuttleworth meant women and not girls) about pers (= her/his) work (in order to impress - I suppose quite a human characteristic this need to impress). My mind was still reeling from prostitution and fresh meat and it just .... words cannot express fully how I feel. I never feel good about being called "a girl" or "a guy" (there was an ex army person in one of the comments telling how in the army the word "guy" was not acceptable). I keep telling anyone who makes that mistake that I am a woman. I am an adult and although I talk about my feelings I am capable of reasoning too. I will stay with Ubuntu, at least for now, and wait and see what else comes up. I used to think Mark Shuttleworth a great person for starting Ubuntu and making it available for so many people. I must say that this talk has diminished per (=her/him) in my estimation. I am still hoping per (= s/he) will apologise. That is the only thing that will restore my good opinion of per. My best wishes to you all, Ireene Legally, one personal name: Ireene-Sointu. No surname. No title. Arc Riley kirjoitti: <div><div></div><div class="h5">> I watched the whole video. > > I agree that the "happy ending" joke was a off-color, I would expect > him to be more professional given his background and position > regardless of the crowd, but I didn't find anything sexist in it. > Sexual, certainly. Inappropriate, arguably. > > I don't think he was talking about adults when he said "girls", I > personally heard this in relation to the cultural norm (which I've > frustratingly experienced myself) for many young people. We do lack > gender-neutral pronouns in our everyday speech and, if you notice, he > uses feminine pronouns throughout as the default ("her", "mother", > "grandmother", etc). "Youth" would have been a better term perhaps? > > Of course this isn't a gender issue, I've experienced the same for > many guys - my ex boyfriend only liked his new Ubuntu box once a > "Hello Kitty" theme was applied and showed him how to browse youtube > with totem so he could watch full screen videos of cats doing funny > things, XP apparently was too slow to handle full screen flash video > on the same hardware. > > I think Mark ment well and, from what I know about him, I think he > really does care about this issue even if he hasn't refined his > communication style to fully reflect his beliefs. Gentle suggestions > on how he could better communicate along these lines would be far more > effective than reading all this buzz critically analyzing his words > and attacking him for them. > > This really goes for all of Ubuntu and it's a CoC issue. It's better > to talk to someone privately and gently than through a public forum. > Everyone makes mistakes, we're all human, so we can best hope to help > each other refine ourselves and thus improve the Ubuntu community as a > whole. </div></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">-- Ubuntu-Women mailing list <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-Women@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-Women@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women</a> </div></div></blockquote></div> -- <href> <a href="http://www.scientificruciverb.blogspot.com">http://www.scientificruciverb.blogspot.com</a> </href> It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so long as it makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got your money as long as you have got it. -Edwin Way Teale