<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 15, 2008 10:39 AM, Sarah Hobbs <<a href="mailto:hobbsee@ubuntu.com">hobbsee@ubuntu.com</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div class="Ih2E3d">I would think this gets back to the "limited time" problem. There is<br>limited time for someone to spend on Ubuntu, and time for outreach would<br>normally be spent improving the documentation, where you could see what <br>needed to be done from reading the documentation. MOTU, for eg, already<br>does this to a degree, with the posts on planet ubuntu - do the women<br>require a separate posting for this? That being said, having people who <br>mirror interesting opportunities from planet ubuntu to this mailing list<br>might be useful.</div></blockquote> <div> </div> <div>True time spent improving the documentation should take a higher priority than time spent on outreach of a small subset of individuals. After doing quite a bit of drilling down from <a href="http://ubuntu.com">ubuntu.com </a>, I can see that different information is available to developers based on how you traveled down the tree of links. Documenting all the various avenues that are available to developers on an upper level page, like <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers"> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers</a>, would reduce some of the limited variations that you see on the lower level pages.</div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div class="Ih2E3d"><br>> It could be that you don't have to break into a group of men to commit to a<br>> project, but as a newbie that's how I picture it. I'm sure that's how most<br>> women see the process and shrug the shoulders in a "I don't have the time <br>> for this." A job ad reduces that whole breaking down walls aspect and<br>> transform you into a simple job applicant. If you get the job then you are<br>> able to get involved and gain a better sense of how the internal process <br>> works. Then maybe in turn you can carve out a job to bring another person on<br>> board.<br><br></div>I don't see it as you having to break into a group of men. I see it as<br>you having to break into a group of people. Yes, this can be quite hard <br>- - in the development community, for eg, you have to find people to<br>sponsor your new packages, or your patches in, and the speed of this<br>will depend, in part, on how good your work is. I don't see it<br>depending on who you are. </blockquote> <div> </div> <div>No, it's definitely breaking into a group of men because male members are the majority or in most cases the only members. Having an androgenous alias is probably the trouble free way to break in without having to prove as much, but it defeats the purpose of getting women involved. </div> <div> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><span id=""></span><br>My other problem with all of this is the idea that women need to be<br>constantly driven by external things - like needing to be told what to <br>work on. This doesn't work - whether you're a male or a female. At the<br>end of the day, you have to have the motivation to do what you want to<br>do, and be able to read and process information, else you'll never <br>succeed in your chosen field.</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>This is a community dominated by X, to get Y to join/participate there has to be some attempts on the part of X to attract/include/nurture Y to get Y to join. If Y is successful at participating then Y can stay if Y chooses. </div> <div> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>That being said, having initial sessions figuring out what<br>women/men/green aliens/ white people/ black people / brown people / <br>purple people /etc would like to work on, and what resources they should<br>look at to do so, and where to ask for help is very useful. </blockquote> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><span id=""></span><br>Also, the whole "job" idea suggests that there is a figure at the top,<br> giving out orders. There isn't. There are panels of people (and there<br>is sabdfl) who make global decisions in their respective domains - but<br>don't tell you what to do for day-to-day stuff (although there are <br>written technical instructions about how to do things). It appears that<br>a lot of people, both male and female, believe this to be the case. One<br>of the very useful things ubuntu women could do is to expose this lie to <br>new contributors, to ease the "culture shock" of contributing to free<br>software. Perhaps that is one of the keys - to ease the culture shock,<br>so that people are unlikely to back away, and go "this is too hard for <br>me. I can't do this".</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>Maybe some pointers on how to find a bug on launchpad. How to go about fixing one and submitting it for sponsorship/review/approval? Fixing a bug could be considered doing a "Job" since there are specific requirements for each bug. </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>I haven't addressed the entire issue of harassment - it's been covered<br>extensively already. Yes, it sucks. Yes, it should go away. <br>Fortunately, some areas are better than others.</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>The harassment issue is probably always going to be a factor based on human nature. Reducing the harassment level by labeling it as taboo within the ubuntu all-inclusive community is probably the best that can be done. </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><span id=""></span><br><br>Hobbsee<br>(the first female core dev, MOTU, etc)<br>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- <br>Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)<br>Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - <a href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org/" target="_blank">http://enigmail.mozdev.org</a><br><br>iD8DBQFHjNO67/o1b30rzoURAp76AJ9M8JY14ORhm9np/TYpaYV1O1yZrgCg29Go <br>flKt28+XoD1XGJdTGTg7grQ=<br>=okRC<br>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br><font color="#888888"><br>--<br></font> <div> <div></div> <div class="Wj3C7c">ubuntu-women mailing list<br><a href="mailto:ubuntu-women@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-women@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br><a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women </a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>--Tricia